I have not seen a single list of ultra slow pay or No pay Companies in one place.

To start, How about only listing companies that are 75+ days from date of shop.

MY nominees are:
Direct Scheduling Service / Ramack Scheduling Service (NO PAY)
Goodwin & Associates
Certifed aka Market Force Purple also takes 75+ on theatre audits that require hardcopy mail-in in my experience

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2010 04:10PM by vanster2000.

Service Sleuth would qualify on the slow-pay front (90 days from shop) although they are upfront about it - they state their payment terms clearly and they follow them... so I personally do not consider them a problem to shop for and will continue to do so for some shops.

To me the problem is not really slow pay - if it meets stated payment terms, but when the payment terms deviate from their policy.

A MSC that states they pay in 30 days and really pays in 45 days is more of a problem to me than one that states they pay in 90 days and adheres to that.

With a few rare exceptions - if I have to contact a company for payment because it is outside the stated terms, then I no longer shop for that company. I don't have time to chase payment. Margins are already way too low.

vanester,
I agree with MickeyB,
It is the companies that deviate from their stated payment schedule that bother me. If a company says that hotel shops are reimbursed and fees paid within 90 days, and they meet that deadline, no problem. One of mine states "60 to 90 days" and usually pays at about 62, but a few have gone to 90. Still no problem, since I knew what I was getting into.

My real problem is the outfits where theri dog keeps eatng shoppers' invoices, and "the check has been in the mail for months" like Service Trac. They really belong on the "red" list. Let's consider renaming it the "liar, liar, pants on fire" list.

My hope that this was going to be a list not a discussion

ATH - slow pay - Shops done in September, shown on their website as 'paid' November 1, check dated November 17 received November 18. Whenever I work for them or Service Sleuth they are the companies that keep that month open awaiting payment.

Service Trac

someone could make a face book or myspace page about this...

Channel Watch - the only company to ever flat out burn me on a shop.

Regal -- Slow, Slow, Get the Draino Slow

I don't have a problem with Regal; they say 60-90 days and that is when I get the money.

vanster2000 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My hope that this was going to be a list not a
> discussion


It would be nice to have a list, and I think it's a great idea, but we would need to have discussion first to set the parameters for the list, otherwise it gets to be personal determination and could be complicated by shoppers reporting a one-time slow payment....or a payment that seems slow but is within the company's stated payment time.

What kind of a list do we want? Do we want a list that tells all MSPs that take over 45 days to pay? Do we want a list that tells what every MSPs stated payment time is (so we can gauge whether or not they are meeting their commitment?)? Do we want just a list of the major offenders? I certainly think adding Direct Scheduling and Goodwin to any list of slow pay/no pay MSPs is a no brainer.

What is slow? I agree totally with Mickey and walesmaven. I don't think it is fair to put a MSP on a slow-pay list if the MSP has published its payment time and is meeting that commitment, because the shopper knows up front when he/she will be paid and accepts that by taking the assignment. If the MSP publishes a payment time that is too slow for me, I may not accept an assignment with them. But if I accept, knowing when they have committed to payment, and they DO NO meet their own
time frame, that is slow.

I think up front discussion is necessary if we want a list that actually means anything ..... we would need to decide what the list actually is and what we want to show .... otherwise, we end up comparing apples and oranges .... or maybe even apples and watermelons. Putting Regal or Service Sleuth (whose payment is slow compared to my favorite-quick-payers, QAMS and Feedback Plus, but is still within what they tell shoppers up front) with Freeman, Direct Scheduling, And Goodwin seems pointless to me.

Yes, Channelwatch won't pay without a fight....STAY AWAY FROM THEM.

AM & All,
That is why I suggested at 75+ days to start. I can understand a small business having limited cash flow in the current economy and possibly being out at 60 days, giving them a 15 day fudge factor. My other reasoning was, say a shopper had to use a credit card for a high end shop. The first 25 days are interest free, and then today’s average Credit card will be a minimum of 1 percent for the next 30 days, another 1 percent for the following 30 days. So if the provider pays within 75 days by snail mail check, you should be able to only take a 2 percent charge against the shop and pay off your charge card before the next interest cycle is due. So anything out 75+ days is open game in my book. It does not matter to me if a MSC is stating 75+ days in their posting or IC Agreement, the list is a Red list not a “Black List” red for extreme caution, Not black, so some lowlife with deep pockets could track us down and file some slander or other crappy law suit against us, Red is opinion, Black is more drawing a line.
I Have been shopping for a couple of years and I only fill out a few applications anymore. Most are based off of referrals I get from the posts here. I would use the list, to filter through the self promotion from the companies and not even bother signing up with companies that other shoppers have “Red Lined” in their little black book of MSCs.
DSS for their continued story telling; Goodwin for the same reason, and in my case with Certified (Market force Purple) three different Theatre assignments, requiring snail mailed hardcopy, in three different months that took 75+ days to get paid. All other assignments from Certified have been paid within 45 days to include theater assignments without hard copy submission.

My two cents on who gets added, But I am in agreement that a set of “Guidelines should be observed”

How about two lists ~

Slow paying - 45 days, or whatever is agreed upon

Late paying - Habitually pays outside stated term


I have no problem putting the MSP on a slow-paying list, even when they do pay within the stated term. Whether 45, 60, 75 days . . . , it's just a snapshot and another tool to use.

Service Slueth, Service Check, Palm Scheduling, Goodwin, About Face.

I like the idea of two lists: slow paying and late paying. But, if a company pays all June shops the last week of July, for instance, they will end up in the slow pay category because early June shops will exceed the 45 day limit. I suspect that we'd do better to say, "greater than 45 days on average, so the the above mentioned schedule would not land the company on the slow pay list. Or????

If there was a second list of a shorter than 75 days, Should we ask that Multiple people post for each company on it and give an average pay from their personal experience?

A few of the nominations, in my experience, are paying as promised. They also require rotation of the assignments. I actually use their payments as reminders to schedule another shop with them. They pay just about the time that I am eligible for the same assignment. These couple of companies has very limited work in my area because of my demographic. Others of you, in different areas and different demographics may be flooded with shops from these companies. Because I am a baby boomer and not currently dating, I am not eligible for many of the posted shops from these companies. It is really hard to find someone to “act” as couple for jewelry shops, fine dining and overnight hotel shops requiring a companion. As a result, I only have limited work from these few companies and do not mind a 6 times a year job availability. It is a lot easier to take a buddy or coworker to casual dining that it is when you are required to act like a couple.
So I like the yellow and the red separate list idea, but I feel that it needs to be more than just a company name on the yellow postings. On the red list, I would suggest that we post the current time period from our experience and use the plus sign or an unpaid note to indicate that this is a company that has not paid as of the posting date.

Re: Regal
I thought they were 60 days which is slow in my book.
Waiting 90 days for my $200 dinner/drink reimbursement is a stuffed up drain.

For that reason, I like Mert's classification.

Regal may pay within stated limited, so not late per se, only slow paying.

The point is to let other people know so that they're within their comfort zone. Waiting 60 days for $200 was barely within my limit, waiting 90 days is out of my zone and I will not do again. Why am I letting them sit on my money for 3 months??
Coyle, who has better restaurants reimburses within 30 days, and their reports are no more labor intensive.

Mert Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How about two lists ~
>
> Slow paying - 45 days, or whatever is agreed upon
>
> Late paying - Habitually pays outside stated term
>
>
> I have no problem putting the MSP on a slow-paying
> list, even when they do pay within the stated
> term. Whether 45, 60, 75 days . . . , it's just a
> snapshot and another tool to use.


I like the idea of the two lists. I understand that a company paying 60-90 days after the shop really is not wrong as long as they follow their terms, but it is nice to know ahead of time.

I can remember back when I started signing up with a lot of new companies. Some really make it difficult to find their payment terms. Sometimes the payment terms make a difference in deciding on taking a shop or not.

IMO, if I am doing a shop with a large reimbursement where I will be out the cash for awhile, I would rather get paid a little less but get reimbursed quickly with a company like CoRI, than get paid more but be out my funds for 90 days.

Of course if there is a client whose services you want or need, the chances are that you will not get a choice of companies for whom to do the work. Of course we would all love to get paid instantly for every shop, but that isn't going to happen. A shopper's recourse is to decide if the service/fee is worth the wait. And definitely when what was agreed upon as the time frame for payment is not honored, that is when shoppers truly get annoyed. There are some cheap companies out there with cheap shops and long pay cycles that I just flat out ignore until they come back with bonuses large enough to finally make them worth the wait for payment.

Another thought on these lists, we could request that there be only one post per person. We would request that you go back in and "edit" to update yor current experience with a MSC. Something like

Regal: as of 11/2010 Paying 66 days
as of 8/2010 Paying 78 days

DSS: as of 11/2010 Not paid 126 Days since Shop

Then the other question is: Where is the starting line? Day of shop, End of month shop conducted or 15th & 30th?

For this list, if a company is upfront about their payment time frame, they should not be on the (any) list, correct?

It would not be right to list the company on a (negative) list, IMO.

Sometimes it is hard to find out the payment terms when trying to decide to sign up. This not a blacklist, it more of a guide based on actual experience. If a company pays afor any reason over 75 days, I feel that other shoppers should be able to see that infornation before they go through the sign up process with the MSC.

I know it would save me a lot of time, especially when you have to write an essay when applying.

I agree with both of Vanster2000's points.
This list is meant to inform
And
It is sometimes hard to find payment terms.


I look to this board for information and having a list of payment terms versus defacto payment times would be very informative.


As long as I know when I will be paid / reimbursed, and this time frame is honored, then the onus is on me to decide to take or reject the shop.

Slow / Late is really a matter of semantics, which I think is Flash's point -- just because a MSC pays 90 days out, doesn't mean they're bad.
It's their payment terms, plain and simple.

So, on that note. Should we avoid the word slow and simply list pay time frames. Something along the line of:

Companies that pay:
Weekly
Bi-Monthly
Monthly
45 days
60 days
75 days
90 days

And

Companies who pay Outside their stated Payment Terms- regardless of their payment terms.


My disclaimer:
1. If I misread anyone's comments, Sorry.
2.This is only my feelings and my suggestions. If you don't like them, don't jump on me, just list your own suggestions.

I like this idea, DaScubaLady

DaScubaLady wrote:

So, on that note. Should we avoid the word slow and simply list pay time frames. Something along the line of:

Companies that pay:
Weekly
Bi-Monthly
Monthly
45 days
60 days
75 days
90 days

And

Companies who pay Outside their stated Payment Terms- regardless of their payment terms.


It gives a lot more relevant information than just "slow" which can mean a lot or nothing......

These are more lists than I envisioned originally, but I like the idea that every comapny would get feedback posted about them. This way no MSC could say they were being singled out for ratings feedback. If a MSC had a problem with where they were being reported, they could always speed up payment to get moved to a better rating.


So how do start each string if enough of us are in agreement? Is is a single string? or is it split up into 8 strings as listed above. Then the question becomes, If three different forum users report "Company A" on three different lists, How do we average the rating? or do we?

For a lot of companies, it's not easy to do it by days. For example, some pay at the 'x' month following the shop, regardless of how early or late in the month the shop occurred.

Here's two to add to the list.

Reality Check - Ranging from 60 days plus. (That said, I'd shop for them any day.)

Business Evaluation Services - 45 BUSINESS DAYS from the date of the shop. (And yes, those "non-business" days really delay payment.

Nice had a great example. I was just paid by Reality Check on Nov 19 for a Sep 30 shop, so this time it was 11 days earlier than posted. But the shops I did earlier in the month of September were also paid at the same time. So my opinion is this company should be listed something like:

Reality Check: Promises end of second month after shop is completed. Currently pays 50 days after month's end of shop.
Avg for this company 65 Days
Pay Issues: No issues with this MSC
Recommendation: Very easy company to work with, but 60 day+ Pay cycle


This would be with the clock starting mid month of September, all of October and 19 days in November)

Any thoughts of formatting?

One thought is to do an excel spreadsheet and have one volunteer compile the info. If it's done from the same template, would excel compile the results from a simple formula?
Plus: That would eliminate our names, so no possible repercussions, and it's purely data, nothing subjective.
Minus: Would anyone go through the trouble of ballot stuffing??

Just an idea for spreadsheet:

MSC
Submission Date:
Payment Method:
Payment Date:
Payment Terms:
Variance:


The variance is the difference between payment date and promise date, which would determine if late. Only problem are those MSC's who give a range.

Here's a flag as RED AS BLOOD!!!


MEASURE CONSUMER PERSPECTIVES !!!!