I hope Shoppers refusing changes their mind...

These guys never see the forest for the trees. Somebody sells them on the idea that shoppers will look less like employees if they are businesses with EINs and they give no heed to what that entails for the shopper. Somebody sells them on the idea that GeoVerify can 'clear up' any possible discrepancies and they evidently have no idea what it feels like to the shopper. Somebody sells them on the idea that funnelling all payments through a single bank account for shoppers is a great way to 'prove' they are working with individual shoppers because someone else is doing the background checks for them. Somebody sells them on the idea that a cheapie background check will make their client's clients safer and they have no sense of what legal responsibility for 'expertise' that may imply. Somebody decides that date and time stamp on a photo will 'prove' that a shopper took them at the time indicated on the photo. All of these 'solutions' are NOT going to eliminate dishonesty in those who wish to be dishonest, they are NOT going to satisfy IRS that there was a true Independent Contract relationship in place and they are NOT going to be any better than a simple check of SSN to make sure that name and number match. I just hope they aren't paying huge 'consulting fees' to the snake oil salesmen who are coming up with these brilliantly stupid ideas!

I far prefer to use my EIN - a stole EIN doesnt do the amount of damage a stolen SSN does - it is almost impossible to open fraudulent credit using a stolen EIN

LisaSTL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just saw it when I logged on and sent them a
> message. Since they also require shoppers to pay
> for their own background check in order to get the
> occasional BV it would not surprise me if this is
> now required. If so, no big deal for me. I did
> fine before them and things will be just fine
> without them
>
> BTW, I went in planning on entering my SSN to see
> what would happen and the page is not secure. The
> hell with that!

The sad part is that the IRS specifically states in the W9, page 3, part 1 (right column)

"If you are a sole proprietor and you have an EIN, you may enter either your SSN or EIN. However, the IRS prefers that you use your SSN."

HELLO TRENDSOURCE ARE YOU LISTENING? Even the IRS debunks your thinking!

So being new and naive...

Why is it such a big deal to have an EIN to use vs. the SS#? It seems like an EIN is safer for use. I am not leaning one way or the other. I don't have an EIN, I was considering one, but an not sure seeing all the upset of it.

Thanks guys.

I think that a lot of the anger and frustration center around the wide variation of companies in this business. There are some good, reliable companies that are great to work with and there are companies who seem to feel they can prove they know what they are doing by creating obstacles.

Over the years these two-bit companies have thrown requirement after requirement on shoppers and when their long time shoppers thumb their noses and go elsewhere, they wonder why they get ripped off or flaked on all the time. Their misguided efforts are not to work WITH shoppers but rather whine about how mistreated they are and represent that each new requirement will make things better for shoppers. The reality is that they DON'T. If there has been any cost savings brought about by the change, it is never passed on or shared with shoppers in the form of higher fees.

Overall very little of my work is done with the two-bit companies. While it is nice to have them 'on tap' for a shop or two here or there, they are certainly not worth buying and supporting a smart phone to be able to shop or set up another vendor to deal with in order to get paid or sign off on an ICA that says I will cover THEIR legal expenses in case a suit arises from work they have sent me to perform or start working with an EIN here and a SSN there. There are many more good companies that will NOT allow an EIN than there are companies that require or allow them.

Every year it is fascinating in 1099 season to realize how little some of these companies actually know about the tax code. When they do something that is foolish and totally wrong, their response is 'that is what our accountant told us to do'. None of them are willing to have the buck stop at their desk, use the Search feature on the IRS website and then go ask the accountant 'why'? My sense is that in many other areas of business they are no more astute.

For a few years the MSPA was banging the drum that shoppers must write to their congressional representatives to block the laws being considered that would eliminate the Independent Contractor relationship. IRS has been clear for decades about the tests of an Independent Contractor. And any legislation being considered was create stiff penalties to deal with the abuses such as at one of the high tech companies where an employee was laid off a year or two before full retirement and then immediately rehired as an "Independent Contractor". The employee still reported to the same desk every morning, in the same building, with the same hours, the same boss and the same work, but now he was doing it on a contract basis with no benefits. But this 'campaign' allowed MSPA member companies to feel that the MSPA was doing something for them.

Many companies do overstep what an IRS auditor would consider the thin line between employee and independent contractor. But they do this more with their editors and schedulers than with their shoppers.

Thanks Flash.

I did my research and used the "search" feature at the IRS. I do believe EIN is not what they want us to use. They want us to use our SS#. I will not be getting one for Trendsource...the pizza was good, but not that great. LOL.

We have until May before they require existing shoppers to have one in order to get paid. I am not getting one so I will stop checking at that point. I'm not going to deactivate, unless they do it for lack of an EIN, in case they change their minds like Maritz did.

LisaSTL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's the reply. I e-mailed back to ask if they
> were going to handle deactivating accounts or if I
> should do that myself. Maybe if someone has some
> time today they could research these Federal and
> State regulations that are being referred to
> here.
>
> "Yes the EIN is a new requirement in order to meet
> State and Federal Independent Contractor
> regulations, TrendSource and MSI Services are
> requiring all Independent Field Agents to obtain
> and use an Employer Identification Number (EIN).
> An EIN is safer than using a Social Security
> Number. Obtaining one is free and the process only
> takes 5 minutes. EINs are used for people who are
> in business for themselves; for example,
> Independent Contractors. Please be aware that you
> can obtain an EIN if you are employed by another
> company, while also performing work as an
> Independent Contractor for MSI and other Mystery
> Shopping companies. All MSI Field Agents are
> Independent Contractors and must obtain an EIN.
> Beginning in March 2012, MSI will no longer accept
> Social Security Numbers for new agents and will
> instead require an EIN. By May 2012, all existing
> Field Agents must provide an EIN to continue to
> receive payments."

I prefer to use my EIN but CORI would not let me sign up with my EIN stating that CORI company policy mandates using SSN. I did not sign up with CORI for that very reason.

UnderCover Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LisaSTL Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Here's the reply. I e-mailed back to ask if
> they
> > were going to handle deactivating accounts or if
> I
> > should do that myself. Maybe if someone has
> some
> > time today they could research these Federal
> and
> > State regulations that are being referred to
> > here.
> >
> > "Yes the EIN is a new requirement in order to
> meet
> > State and Federal Independent Contractor
> > regulations, TrendSource and MSI Services are
> > requiring all Independent Field Agents to
> obtain
> > and use an Employer Identification Number
> (EIN).
> > An EIN is safer than using a Social Security
> > Number. Obtaining one is free and the process
> only
> > takes 5 minutes. EINs are used for people who
> are
> > in business for themselves; for example,
> > Independent Contractors. Please be aware that
> you
> > can obtain an EIN if you are employed by
> another
> > company, while also performing work as an
> > Independent Contractor for MSI and other
> Mystery
> > Shopping companies. All MSI Field Agents are
> > Independent Contractors and must obtain an EIN.
> > Beginning in March 2012, MSI will no longer
> accept
> > Social Security Numbers for new agents and will
> > instead require an EIN. By May 2012, all
> existing
> > Field Agents must provide an EIN to continue to
> > receive payments."
>
> I prefer to use my EIN but CORI would not let me
> sign up with my EIN stating that CORI company
> policy mandates using SSN. I did not sign up with
> CORI for that very reason.


Just wondering why everyone calls them CORI even though they call themselves CRI? Did they use to call themselves CORI?

I think there is or was another company that was shorthanded to CRI and this one became CORI to differentiate between them since none of us wants to type out full names, LOL!

I think that is a throwback to when there were some several companies that had CRI as their initials. There was Capstone Research Inc, and of course Certified Research before it was gobbled by Market Force. The other one that gets different abbreviations is the companies that hire us. They are Mystery Shop Providers and many are members of the Mystery Shop Provider's Association but they are sometimes referred to as MSPs and sometimes as MSCs.

I just cancelled my one shop for next week also. I do have a EIN from a business I ran years ago, but will not give it to them. Just going to see what happens.

I didn't know there was a stink about using an EIN....I have my business license and consider myself a business. I signed as I want to do a few shops
for them. The whole thing took 5 minutes, didn't cost anything, and is of no
harm to the shopper, so, I took the easy way out. Guess I'm too ole to sweat the small stuff, not seeing any harm in having one.

I think for most of us (well, I can only speak for myself, but from what I have read), obtaining a EIN is a simple straightforward process. The confusion will come at tax time. When I fill out my schedule C, I use my SS#. If I obtain a EIN for Trendsource only, I believe it could cause some confusion on filing taxes. The IRS encourages people who are in my situation as a shopper to use their SS# when filing taxes.

I am choosing not to complicate my tax situation. The "free" pizzas were nice, but not nice enough to confuse me at tax time.


Irene_L.A. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I didn't know there was a stink about using an
> EIN....I have my business license and consider
> myself a business. I signed as I want to do a few
> shops
> for them. The whole thing took 5 minutes, didn't
> cost anything, and is of no
> harm to the shopper, so, I took the easy way out.
> Guess I'm too ole to sweat the small stuff, not
> seeing any harm in having one.

And indeed, just how "free" were those pizzas? I remember hearing a lot of shopper complaints about being stuck with the shop cost because TS rejected their pictures . . .

I put in my EIN for a company that I have worked for at least 90 apartment shops and I was deactivated. The reason? One of my employees at a company that I own also used the company EIN making it look to some one who cannot think that I was using multiple names for my shops. Now, please realize, dear shopper that this information came from another MSC who made this accusation. It was not true but all the same, I look like the bad guy and there is no defense to this. MSPA members all "protect" each other from allegedly bad guys like me. I am (was) rated a 10 with this MSC. I did not even get kissed first.

Mine have all been accepted, thankfully!!

I attribute my photo skills to my past life as an ebay seller!


Flash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And indeed, just how "free" were those pizzas? I
> remember hearing a lot of shopper complaints about
> being stuck with the shop cost because TS rejected
> their pictures . . .

dr.lloyd@sbcglobal.net Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>One of my employees at a
> company that I own also used the company EIN
> making it look to some one who cannot think that I
> was using multiple names for my shops.

Are not you the only person who can use that EIN? If your employee was also a shopper could not use that EIN, correct?

It's interesting to me that no one has mentioned the biggest drawback of using the EIN, at least in my case. If you use the EIN the check comes in the business name and unless you have a Business bank account in that name, YOU CAN"T CASH or DEPOSIT YOUR CHECKS!!
When Maritz asked for EIN's last year, I thought since I had one, no big deal. Last year the did not use them. THIS year they did. My first two checks were paid under my EIN in my company name. Since I had offically closed my "business" in August and closed my business account I had a terrible time. I finally had one bank accept the checks, but told me any future checks would be denied. I did go back to Maritz and get it changed back to my SS#, so now I guess my tax return for next year will be screwed up.

Very interesting. This is something that I did not know! If no one can cash their checks, then TS will "make" more money! Very great point. Good and very useful information.

Just another reason that we should NOT all run out and sign up for an EIN just because it "only takes 5 minutes!" We all need to research, ask questions, and know all the details before we potentially set ourselves up for Mystery Shopping failure!

barbage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's interesting to me that no one has mentioned
> the biggest drawback of using the EIN, at least in
> my case. If you use the EIN the check comes in the
> business name and unless you have a Business bank
> account in that name, YOU CAN"T CASH or DEPOSIT
> YOUR CHECKS!!
> When Maritz asked for EIN's last year, I thought
> since I had one, no big deal. Last year the did
> not use them. THIS year they did. My first two
> checks were paid under my EIN in my company name.
> Since I had offically closed my "business" in
> August and closed my business account I had a
> terrible time. I finally had one bank accept the
> checks, but told me any future checks would be
> denied. I did go back to Maritz and get it changed
> back to my SS#, so now I guess my tax return for
> next year will be screwed up.

If my name is Sally Smith and I get an EIN in the name of Sally Smith I can most likely deposit business checks payable to Sally Smith to my personal Sally Smith account at the bank. However depositing business checks to a personal account is considered 'commingling funds'. As shoppers we do this all the time when we deposit our fee checks to our personal account, but at least those checks are drawn and paid to an individual with the tax ID (i.e. SSN) we have provided.

Once you start depositing checks to an account that do not match the tax IDs used, you could potentially have issues. Years ago I would cash paychecks for a friend using my bank account since she had no account herself. None of them ever bounced or ever had other issues. She signed them over to me and I got cash for her. The Senior Compliance Officer at the brokerage firm where I worked advised me to stop the practice because there were other implications from that as well.

If you decide to do it the right way and open a business account you will find that fee structures are different and often there are substantial minimum balances required to avoid fees. One bank, for instance, wants to charge you $17 per month for a business account and your monthly $8.95 on line banking fee will be waived if you choose electronic statements and do all transactions through a ATM or electronically. They won't even state what the minimum balance to avoid the $17 monthly fee will be on their website. My current bank would charge $10 per month for a business checking account unless I kept a $6000 minimum balance in the account.

All that for $5 and a free pizza

Exactly, LisaSTL!

#notworthit

Now I get it and thanks (barbage) for the information, it now makes sense.
My yearly income from TS doesn't add up to much, but yes, they do use your business name and that could be a problem, as you stated. I will now reverse
back to SS, and forget about TS.

Information on the IRS website makes it rather clear that an EIN has nothing to do with us. It is for those with a business, small or large.
I do not consider my mystery shopping a business. I report all my earnings as self-employment income and pay taxes, but I'm not going to make those taxes even more complicated and risk issues, by getting an unneccessary EIN ( and in the process forming a 'business').
This pdf from the IRS website is all about the EIN: [www.irs.gov]

Trendsource needs to find another tax advisor, as whoever they employ now doesn't seem to be up on his tax knowledge. I sincerely hope they give up on this new policy, as lately I've been doing more work for them and would be disappointed to have to quit.

Btw I stand on a chair over the pizza to take pictures and so far haven't had any problems. Maybe I just have a nice editor.

an EIN is no big deal. Everyone is making it out to this big thing. I've been using one for years. You enter it on your regular tax return. No need to file separately, and no need to give companies your ssn.

I like that they finally accept it. Wouldn't take it from me years ago.

For those deactivating, thanks! More shops for me : )

I think it will be a problem for those who claim shopping as a hobby. Having an EIN brings you closer as having it as a business, instead of a hobby, for the IRS.

Not making much from TS hobby or not, it's about the amount made, and taxes remain the same EIN or SS.....it's not cashing the check that makes things
not duable. Would the bank have proof this is you, or do you have to bring to business license everytime you cash a 10.00 check?

If it is a hobby, the deductions are in schedule A, not C, and can not be offset for profit that you make in other business, only for profit in the hobby activities. There are other many distinctions, but I do not claim it as a hobby so I am not familiar.