I'm lost (Ha! Ha!) No, seriously. What can the MSC get from my smart phone without going through the carrier (e.g., Verizon, Sprint, AT&T) or the police? I understand my smart phone is emitting a GPS signal--which is how I can ue my phone instead of my car's GPS. How does that help the MSC? I guess I could use the phone to prove I was where I said I was...but I don't even get that part, because I could have lent someone my phone. If an MSC asked me for my phone records to prove I was where I was, I would probably tell them to go to hell. I don't handle being treated like a teenager on probation very well. If I was feeling a bit more charitable, I might (but not before checking with my son and my brother, who is a lawyer).

As far as the MSCs checking and double checking on us--not trusting us--why else are we required to get receipts for purchases (sometimes unreimbursed). It's either because the MSC doesn't trust (or the client wants to make a bit of extra money...whether the purchase is reimbursed or not, the client makes something.

I did a shop today....didn't realize until it was too late to bail. I was basically checking up on the IC merchandisers. Sorry folks. I had to go to Costco and check out the demonstrators of a certain company. I only had to evaluate 3 and I was allow to wander around around as much as I wanted. In fact, I had to make a purchase (unreimbursed!!!) to prove I was there. So I shopped 3 demonstrators who were doing everything right.

I'm not sure why the smart phone helps the MSC check your location. The uploaded business card/receipt does the same thing. I mapquest directions,
although my Smart phone has a GPS that I don't use, mapquest many times give you the longest route. My Smart Phone is great telling me when jobs come in. I just don't see how the MSC makes money if you do or don't have a smart phone, it's convience is reaching you immediately..
They haven't told anyone to buy one, they are just asking if you have one.
Everyone keeps up with the times, or we'd all still be on horseback.

jersey07032 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I guess I could use the phone to prove I was where I
> said I was...but I don't even get that part,
> because I could have lent someone my phone.

ROFL! That made me think if they are tracking through GPS, someone could take the job, leave their cell at home, and take one of their kids' smartphones instead. Hee hee. Maybe the battery died last minute?

Honestly, though, I'd guess you'd have to download some type of software or give the MSP permission to track you through an app before they'd be able to do that. I can't just look up anyone's location because I want to. I know Google does have some sort of tracker. I saw it when I first got my smartphone and I turned it off. Eesh! I don't want some wacko stalking me. Scary. Gives stalkers a new way to be even creepier.

Angie--I might just do that! Leave my phone home. Take someone else's.

Just think, all we had to worry about a decade ago was wiretaps.

We are all assuming something sinister. The MSC might just want the smart fone because it can use apps "unsmart" fones can't. Not sure what apps an MSC would want us to use--just saying it might not be to track us down. but you know it won't be one of the free apps. And they'll make us pay for it. Whatever IT is.

There is a thread around here about Geo verify. That is what I'm concerned about. It is an app and basically tracks where you were so it can be verified. I wish I could find the other threads because there was something about it being through a third party vendor and issues with the privacy policy and allowing this third party to do whatever they wished with the information.

Sorry the last post was in response to Cherry not Lisa, so I deleted it. But let me clarify a bit. I am the original poster. This was a shop at Costco (no MSC cited. It is in my neighborhood and do a lot of shops there successfully. It paid reasonably well. I was EXCLUDED from even applying for this shop because of the smart phone requirement. THAT is what I consider unfair.

I am able to upload my receipts and do. Howeve there are many reputable decent paying MSCs, while indicating that that is the preferred method offer, shoppers e-mail or fax as an option. These are the co's that realize that not all of their shoppers can afford to upgrade everytime some new technology appears, and I appreciate them for that.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2012 04:24AM by cynb.

Cynb I understand what you are saying...but there are so many things we are required to have to shop (all at our own expense.) The word "fair" doesn't come to mind when I think of MS-ing these days.

LisaSTL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is a thread around here about Geo verify.
> That is what I'm concerned about. It is an app and
> basically tracks where you were so it can be
> verified.

I'm only ever so slightly familiar with the Google tracking app. Is this the thread? [www.mysteryshopforum.com] It's the only one I've found. If not and you come across it, I'd be interested. If I did do a shop, I'd delete the app as soon as I was done. T

When the ms companies hire people for a job that pays $5 they should not complain that they don't get the brightest bulbs doing jobs...


AlwaysAngie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> summerisis Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm glad you wrote this because when I first
> > started and was reading the instructions and
> > guidelines for jobs I was overwhelmed and felt
> > like I was being treated as if I were
> incompetent.
> > There are guidelines that give examples of how
> to
> > answer a "yes" or "no" question! But then I
> > started to think that perhaps a lot of people
> > doing MS jobs are not too bright and need to be
> > told to "write in complete sentences,
> capitalize,
> > and use proper grammar."
>
> Ugh! The reports can be atrocious! No
> capitalization, no punctuation, no idea about how
> to use proper grammar, used slang or
> abbreviations, didn't explain a single no answer
> or write anything relevant, can't spell, wrote a
> brief sentence for the narrative, or acted rude,
> judgmental, obnoxious, and personally offended
> over minor things.
>
> One shopper kept marking the answer no to whether
> the associate suggested a certain brand. This is
> because after the associate offered assistance,
> the shopper just stared at the associte, waiting
> for them to break into conversation about the
> brand without any prompting from the shopper like,
> "I'm looking for a fuel filter." I sent a few
> emails explaining everything so they would
> understand. Didn't help. These were super easy
> shops. I did one and WISH there were more in my
> area. It literally took me two minutes in the
> store and two or three online to answer five
> questions and write a brief paragraph for
> narrative.
>
> It makes me wonder how those types of people even
> found out about MSing because it's apparent they
> don't have a clue and have never visited a forum
> to get an idea of what MSing is about. Thank God
> for the decent shoppers or else I would quit.
>
> P.S. Geotracking wouldn't help with any of the
> issues I mentioned. If it became a requirement for
> the shops I do, I'd stop MSing for the principle
> of it. My record stands for itself. I don't mind
> if special shops are offered with it and I accept
> but I will not have my every movement tracked by
> any company. It has nothing to do with doing
> anything wrong, either. I am not the type of
> person to submit to others so they know every
> little thing I'm' doing. They'll know if I want
> them to, period.

qpone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When the ms companies hire people for a job that
> pays $5 they should not complain that they don't
> get the brightest bulbs doing jobs...


Maybe. But they had the option of not doing the job for $5 to begin with but took it. So when they agreed to the terms of the contract and get paid more for it than the editors, I should expect them to do their job correctly instead trying to push it off onto me after it's been submitted.

This is a standard I've held MYSELF to, so if it sounds sanctimonious (not trying to), I have the right. No matter how crappy the job I got suckered into doing, I've never turned in a subpar report. I didn't do that for the MSP. I did it for myself. Because I care about my business and my reputation. If anyone tried to say otherwise, they'd be full of crap.

However, I might be suckered once, but you won't catch me doing that job twice!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2012 08:53AM by AlwaysAngie.

cynb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> New e-mail. In order to do this shop you must have
> a smart phone/Android in order to do a GPS
> location and send the report w. your phone...

Even if I was willing to play that game, which I'm not, imagine the difficulty in trying to type a lengthy report on one of those tiny keyboards! In my mind all those smart phone keyboards are good for is 140 character or less messages, ie texting. Even then I don't like them.

In my opinion, smart phones with GPS will become what fax machines, scanners and digital phones are now. It used to be that you could phone in your report and mail your receipt but those days are gone.

As new technologies become available, I think the MSCs will initially make them optional until enough shoppers either have or are willing to buy them. At that point, they will become a requirement.

Yes, I still have a few shops where I have to mail in receipts but they are far and few between. I find them a hassle these days as I begrudge spending over a $1 of my hard earned fee on postage.

All that said, I have no interest or intent to buy a smart phone or 'like' anyone on Facebook. I can still Skype with someone without belonging to Facebook if I want, which I don't. Remember, just about any information put on the Internet is available to the world.

And when a shop gets rejected because the GPS software did not agree with someone's notion of where you were supposed to be, do you sue the software manufacturer or the MSP?

I agree with qpone. We aren't really talking about most of the people who post here and feel they have professional obligations. But you know the old saying, you get what you pay for. MSCs offering laughable fees don't really care about the quality of their shoppers or what you as an editor have to go through to "make it right." We all agree that if they would stick with better quality shoppers (and pay them a fair rate) everyone would benefit, including you

AlwaysAngie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> qpone Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > When the ms companies hire people for a job
> that
> > pays $5 they should not complain that they
> don't
> > get the brightest bulbs doing jobs...
>
>
> Maybe. But they had the option of not doing the
> job for $5 to begin with but took it. So when
> they agreed to the terms of the contract and get
> paid more for it than the editors, I should expect
> them to do their job correctly instead trying to
> push it off onto me after it's been submitted.
>
> This is a standard I've held MYSELF to, so if it
> sounds sanctimonious (not trying to), I have the
> right. No matter how crappy the job I got suckered
> into doing, I've never turned in a subpar report.
> I didn't do that for the MSP. I did it for myself.
> Because I care about my business and my
> reputation. If anyone tried to say otherwise,
> they'd be full of crap.
>
> However, I might be suckered once, but you won't
> catch me doing that job twice!

LisaSTL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree with qpone. We aren't really talking about
> most of the people who post here and feel they
> have professional obligations. But you know the
> old saying, you get what you pay for. MSCs
> offering laughable fees don't really care about
> the quality of their shoppers or what you as an
> editor have to go through to "make it right." We
> all agree that if they would stick with better
> quality shoppers (and pay them a fair rate)
> everyone would benefit, including you

I get the point you're both making but it goes against my work ethics so I can't agree with it. I'm not shocked by it but for me, it still stands that if a shopper takes a $5 shop, then they need to do what was agreed to when they took it. If they got suckered, either do it right or cancel it. If they were dumb enough to take it knowing what's invloved, suck it up and learn the second or third or fourth time around...hopefully.

I stupidly took a few shops in my time, though thankfully none of those $5/10 people shops CORI offered. If people stop taking them, then those MSPs would feel enough of a crunch to raise the fees permanently. Then the client would either have to pay up or stop the MSing programs. Either way, it would mean no crappy fees.

As it is, people jump all over crappy fees and if they're going to do it, then they should still do it right, as they agreed to do when they signed up. No one forced them. Then HOPEFULLY learn a lesson from it. Only when that happens does this industry stand a chance of being taken seriously and be considered a profession where one CAN earn a living.

In the meantime, I'm grateful I'm not a CORI editor. I can only imagine the horrendous reports they get. Then again, I've also thought they must be the best paid editors (where all the MS fees go?) because who would be dumb enough to accept an editing job at the standard editing rate? Either that or their clients get some of the worst quality reports in the industry.

None of us are condoning it anymore than you are. It's just the nature of many people these days. You know "work ethic" sometimes seems to be a concept reserved for just us old fogies girlfriend

AlwaysAngie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
... the standard editing rate? Either
> that or their clients get some of the worst
> quality reports in the industry.


Could you tell me a little about how the editing business works please? Does the editor get a percentage of the shop fee? an hourly rate? a 'per word' rate?

What is expected of an editor? I don't know much about the world of editors and schedulers, other than they exist somewhere at the other end of the rainbow.

Thanks

When I was on my first year as a shopper, I came to know a couple of companies and I was offered an editor's job or a scheduler's. I asked one of my favourite editors about his job. He told me his fee and I realized it was so little, considering the work involved and the responsibilty. He also explained how some shoppers tend to think they could get paid for turning a rubbish report and attack the editor for expecting better reports. And his advice was not to take it unless I hated my life. lol

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2012 06:09PM by risinghorizon.

All this talk about work ethic. I am sure most of us have it. My issue is getting assignments that turn out to be something entirely different from what the MSC claimed. If I take a shop for $5, thinking it will take 15 minutes and it takes much longer because of something I am doing wrong, so be it. But if it takes much longer because the MSC was misleading,,,Yep, I still do my best. But at some point I have to admit, I say 'nuf's e nuf" Strangely--maybe not--my ratings do not necessarily correspond to the effort input in. Go figure

I have had lots of requests to update my shopper profile whereas "do you own a smartphone?" was the only new added question. Only one company offered a cover letter for this request (Greet America) stating that reports could be submitted faster to clients via. smartphones. Is GPS the only factor here, or are there other reasons that MS companies would be leaning toward shoppers that use smartphones? I would love to hear from MS companies or shoppers who have been in touch with MS companies as to why they are possibly moving in this direction. That would give me a clear compass as to how to proceed.

Thanks All!

It sounds as if Greet America is not as concerned with tracking as shortening the turnaround time for reports. I'll admit that while focusing on the concern of using some type of app for tracking purposes I have totally overlooked why some companies may be asking that question. Some may be considering adapting their websites to be more compatible with reporting from a phone in order to get the reports in even faster. It could also explain why they are asking about specific types of phones.

In the time I have been with mVentix they have begun to require Flash for their site. While I could enter reports directly prior to the change, there is no Flash player for iPhones so reports now have to wait until I'm at a computer. Personally I would love it if more sites were compatible and I could enter reports quickly on the road. Naturally I don't feel it should become a requirement, just another option. If companies restrict shops to smart phone users they may be hurting everyone by also restricting the demographics.

Bena Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------>
> Even if I was willing to play that game, which I'm
> not, imagine the difficulty in trying to type a
> lengthy report on one of those tiny keyboards! In
> my mind all those smart phone keyboards are good
> for is 140 character or less messages, ie texting.
> Even then I don't like them.

I've tried editing with a smartphone, thinking I'd do something worthwile when I was stuck somewhere waiting. Forget typing a lengthy report. I had a hard time trying to get simple errors in a report I was editing fixed. All the clicking on the boxes, clicking where the error is and hoping you get near the right area, clicking to go back to the main screen...it took much longer with a smartphone so I don't buy that it's quicker to submit on a smartphone unless it's a simple upload and maybe a few yes or no buttons to click. Maybe it's because I'm not 17 anymore. My nephew can text with his hands behind his back. I've come to despise swype no matter how much easier it's supposed to make texting.





Bena Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> AlwaysAngie Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> ... the standard editing rate? Either
> > that or their clients get some of the worst
> > quality reports in the industry.
>
>
> Could you tell me a little about how the editing
> business works please? Does the editor get a
> percentage of the shop fee? an hourly rate? a
> 'per word' rate?
>
> What is expected of an editor? I don't know much
> about the world of editors and schedulers, other
> than they exist somewhere at the other end of the
> rainbow.
>
> Thanks

Personally, I like it better than MSing...most days. Lately I'm going through a terrific streak of great reports, but I still feel burnt out sometimes. The goal is to do between four and six edits an hour. From what I've talked to with other editors, that's the average goal. Of course, some reports are so awful but all the details are there so we work with it. I've had to retype entire reports, trying to decipher what was written, because it's easier than trying to correct each error word by word.

Most editors are paid per edit and while some companies expect a commitment to certain days and hours, others are truly more freelance and you can come and go as you please...as long as there's more than one person working on the client's account. If you're the only one, you're at the mercy of when the reports come in.

I've done reports that paid as little as $1.50 an edit and as much as $5.50 per. A friend did hotel reports for $8 but they were complex. She was expected to get two an hour done. Depends on how much was written and how well it was written. Personally, I'd LOVE to do those $1.50 edits all day long. They were five easy questions and one, maybe two paragraphs describing what happened. Those didn't last long on the board. LOL

I've also done edits for a company that should've paid at *least* twice as much for the reports, partly because of the length of report and partly because of the reporting software that was used. It was awful and there was a high turnover rate. So all companies are not the same. Rate of pay should average at worst $12 an hour up to $20, I've heard. Whether it does depends on the pay, the quality of reports, how perfect the reports are expected to be, and how anal the editor is about correcting them. I'm working on the last and I'm MUCH happier not having to nitpick on every little thing. If you're interested, let the companies you've got a great history with know. Or a scheduler you've got a great repoire with and ask if they'd mind forwarding your name, letting others know you'd like to edit.

Hope that helps.

You are right, no matter how good someone is at texting the lengthy narratives would prove difficult to do properly. My thought would be to have more reports with a save feature allowing things like the the checkboxes to be taken care of immediately and narrative added later. And there are also plenty of reports that just require a line or two of narrative and those can be handled completely on a phone.

Hi All,
New MS here. Looking to get a digital camera with/without video capabilities and a digital voice recorder or a separate video camera.
Any seasoned MS willing to share pearls of wisdom on what equipment to buy? I am looking for small, silent and discreet equipment.
I have an "old fashioned" cell phone with video and still photography options but the phone makes too much noise when it's in use ("clicking" sounds when snapping a photo for example -- hardly undercover) even when volume is on lowest setting.
Your feedback would be helpful.
Thank you.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2012 08:10PM by UnderCover.

Video on your camera or phone isn't all that necessary. If you are considering going into video shopping then their are equipment requirements and a substantial investment. There are also a couple of companies like EPMS who will loan video rigs.

A voice recorder with upload capabilities is always a good idea. While one that would be sufficient strictly for your own use may be a bit cheaper, it's not bad to make the additional invest of $30 to $40 more so it can also work with audio shops. Olympus seems to be the one of choice around here.

What does "Triple Plantinum Certified" mean and what perks does it bring your way?

Brak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Honestly I didn't think much about this issue,
> I've gotten the e-mail and I don't have a smart
> phone nor would I go out and get one just to shop.
> cvb brings up an interesting point about this shop
> not having any purchase requirements. What worries
> me is that a lot of these shops that offer a
> reimbursement as a means of proving we are there
> will cease to offer reimbursements. Instead of
> that $10 fee $5 reimbursement the MSC will just
> say to use your GPS app on your phone to prove you
> were there and only pay you $10 and then they can
> say if you don't have a smartphone you must get a
> receipt and not be reimbursed. If there is a way
> for the MSCs to make more money at the shoppers
> expense they will do it.

First of all, you are likely being overly sensitive to the noise your phone makes. I feel that way about my stop watch. To me the 'ping' when I start or stop it sounds like Big Ben tolling, though in reality it is only my awareness of the noise and folks I am shopping either don't hear it or don't pay attention to the small noise.

I have always been a big fan of Sony equipment and my digital voice recorder as well as my digital camera are both old pieces of Sony equipment that just keep going and going and going.

I would encourage any voice recorder you get you have the capability of uploading the audio file to your computer. Manipulating the file is a lot easier on the computer with the editing software that comes with it than attempting to fast forward or fast reverse on the equipment to listen to that piece of information again. You also can use headphones with the computer to listen to the playback without disturbing others and can control the volume with the computer rather than making adjustments to the dvr for recording versus playback.

For the camera you do not need the 14 megapixels that most cameras now seem to have as standard equipment. Recording that much data per photo means both that you will need to reduce the file size before submitting and you will eat batteries faster as the camera saves all that data. Get a camera that has the possibility of a date and time stamp as that is required for some work and get one that allows you to adjust it down to take quick photos of 1 or 2 megapixels.

AlwaysAngie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Most editors are paid per edit and while some
> companies expect a commitment to certain days and
> hours, others are truly more freelance and you can
> come and go as you please...as long as there's
> more than one person working on the client's
> account. If you're the only one, you're at the
> mercy of when the reports come in.
>
> I've done reports that paid as little as $1.50 an
> edit and as much as $5.50 per. A friend did hotel
> reports for $8 but they were complex. She was
> expected to get two an hour done...
>
>...> So all companies are not the same. Rate of pay
> should average at worst $12 an hour up to $20,
> I've heard. Whether it does depends on the pay,
> the quality of reports, how perfect the reports
> are expected to be, and how anal the editor is
> about correcting them. I'm working on the last and
> I'm MUCH happier not having to nitpick on every
> little thing. If you're interested, let the
> companies you've got a great history with know. Or
> a scheduler you've got a great repoire with and
> ask if they'd mind forwarding your name, letting
> others know you'd like to edit.
>
> Hope that helps.


It helps a lot, thanks. Sounds like editing is very much like MSing. You are at the mercy of the MSP as to pay and amount of work required. I'm not sure I'm ready for editing as I still have too much on my plate, but having the information is the first step to starting. Thanks again!

LisaSTL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It sounds as if Greet America is not as concerned
> with tracking as shortening the turnaround time
> for reports. I'll admit that while focusing on the
> concern of using some type of app for tracking
> purposes I have totally overlooked why some
> companies may be asking that question. Some may be
> considering adapting their websites to be more
> compatible with reporting from a phone in order to
> get the reports in even faster. It could also
> explain why they are asking about specific types
> of phones.
>
> In the time I have been with mVentix they have
> begun to require Flash for their site. While I
> could enter reports directly prior to the change,
> there is no Flash player for iPhones so reports
> now have to wait until I'm at a computer.
> Personally I would love it if more sites were
> compatible and I could enter reports quickly on
> the road. Naturally I don't feel it should become
> a requirement, just another option. If companies
> restrict shops to smart phone users they may be
> hurting everyone by also restricting the
> demographics.

Lisa,
I would tend to agree about the motives of Greet America and some others. I respect the company and know that many companies are doing everything they can in order to shorten reporting time to clients. I agree that it should be an option and not a requirement. Smartphones are amazing, but they cannot help shopers to be more responsible. That is still up to human nature.

Thank you for your thoughts!

I am really glad that I started this thread as there has been a lot of good information here and ideas generated. I really appreciate that everyone has been thoughtful, civil and willing to share info.
I will never understand why people now seem to enjoy listening to and watching humans with questionable IQs yell obscenities at each other and beat on each other. This forum seems to me a calm and sane place to retreat to and engage in.
Cyn