First company I am trying to sign on with is CRI. They won't accept EIN staing that "Our system does not allow the use of EIN. Company policy mandated the Social Security Number. Thank you."

Company answer seemed vague. I don't want to use SSN due to past fraud matters and to protect myself.

Fellow MS feedback appreciated. Thanks.

Just don't work for them (I don't).

anakin Wrote:
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> Just don't work for them (I don't).


Thanks anakin. My thoughts exactly.
I wrote back stating that I'd supply SSN when CRI income reached $599.99 -- no dice.
Another issue that seems to point to "employer's condition for employment" (i.e. MSC sets the rules) rather than IC.
Heard CRI was a company to cut MS teeth on.

CRI is indeed a company to cut your teeth on and most shoppers do not use an EIN but an SSN. In my area there are a heck of a lot more issues with trying to do a business with an EIN than with an SSN and when one company insisted we must get one, I stopped shopping them.

This is not the first time you have expressed concern whether this is an 'employer' or an 'IC' situation. Perhaps mystery shopping is just not for you. These companies do operate at the margins of IC status but have no obligation at all to change the conditions of their registration requirements or their shop windows or their shop requirements or their pay cycles or any of the other "niceties" you would expect from an employer. If you take the attitude they are stepping all over your rights, you will not last long in the business. And remember that as an IC if they do not pay you, you do not have the protections of an employee under labor laws but must go through legal channels to collect your payment.

I'm one of those who is happy if no other shoppers want to sign up with them. More bonuses for me

A couple of companies require things I'm not willing to provide. I choose not to shop for them. Providing a SS# is pretty standard. I'm willing to do that. I'm with Flash on the issues of working with an EIN .... I don't want one of those and won't work a company that requires them.

Flash Wrote:
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> CRI is indeed a company to cut your teeth on and
> most shoppers do not use an EIN but an SSN. In my
> area there are a heck of a lot more issues with
> trying to do a business with an EIN than with an
> SSN and when one company insisted we must get one,
> I stopped shopping them.
>
> This is not the first time you have expressed
> concern whether this is an 'employer' or an 'IC'
> situation. Perhaps mystery shopping is just not
> for you. These companies do operate at the
> margins of IC status but have no obligation at all
> to change the conditions of their registration
> requirements or their shop windows or their shop
> requirements or their pay cycles or any of the
> other "niceties" you would expect from an
> employer. If you take the attitude they are
> stepping all over your rights, you will not last
> long in the business. And remember that as an IC
> if they do not pay you, you do not have the
> protections of an employee under labor laws but
> must go through legal channels to collect your
> payment.

I inquired about IC because I was an IC with a business with negotiating power so I know the difference between (true) IC, and borderline IC/employee. Someone can be a one-person office for an offsite or long-distance employer, or work remotely for an employer, and have a lot of leeway/leniency with duties (i.e. working with little to no supervision as long as the work gets done timely and properly) and still be an employee.
Today, many employers seem to be skirting their responsibilities by (mis?)classifying employees as ICs to reduce employee overhead and liability yet maintain all the rights of an employer. That's seems to be what I'm noticing.

Is no one else seeing this? An IC has the right to set his/her rates or has the ability to negotiate not just accept the rate set by one party (MSC). I read some posts about poor MS pay rates (less than Federal min wage after a shop is completed) yet the IC/MS don't have negotiating power (akin to asking an employer for a raise). I understand about accepting/not accepting a shop and shopping when/where I want to. The terms and conditions of a shop "contract" and work sites are set by the MSC not the IC/MS.

Yes, small claims court to recover payments which would cost more than what is being paid for an average shop.

Seems like a fine line is all. Since I'm new to this industry, I'm doing my homework because I don't know what I don't know about shopping.

Thank you.

Flash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CRI is indeed a company to cut your teeth on and
> most shoppers do not use an EIN but an SSN. In my
> area there are a heck of a lot more issues with
> trying to do a business with an EIN than with an
> SSN and when one company insisted we must get one,
> I stopped shopping them.
>
> This is not the first time you have expressed
> concern whether this is an 'employer' or an 'IC'
> situation. Perhaps mystery shopping is just not
> for you. These companies do operate at the
> margins of IC status but have no obligation at all
> to change the conditions of their registration
> requirements or their shop windows or their shop
> requirements or their pay cycles or any of the
> other "niceties" you would expect from an
> employer. If you take the attitude they are
> stepping all over your rights, you will not last
> long in the business. And remember that as an IC
> if they do not pay you, you do not have the
> protections of an employee under labor laws but
> must go through legal channels to collect your
> payment.

Can you elaborate on the issues in your area trying to do business with EIN instead of SSN? Proverbial land mines??
Thank you.

In my area when you get an EIN for something other than an estate suddenly the tax collector wants to know about the equipment for the business to collect annual taxes on it, the inspectors want to make sure you are buying a business license and want to inspect your place of business . . . it goes on and on and on and you spend a whole lot of time trying to get the bloodhounds off your tracks.

UnderCover Wrote:

Is no one else seeing this? An IC has the right to
> set his/her rates or has the ability to negotiate
> not just accept the rate set by one party (MSC). I
> read some posts about poor MS pay rates (less than
> Federal min wage after a shop is completed) yet
> the IC/MS don't have negotiating power (akin to
> asking an employer for a raise). I understand
> about accepting/not accepting a shop and shopping
> when/where I want to. The terms and conditions of
> a shop "contract" and work sites are set by the
> MSC not the IC/MS.

Your use of work site is misleading. The nature of the business requires a specific location to be shopped. Although, I have had assignments asking for competitor shops which just provided the type of business or product and the geographic area. The other portion of the assignment, reporting, can be done anywhere.

As far as the posted fee and the time for report submission, both of these can be negotiated as well as travel expenses.

Of course you can set your own rates, but that does not mean you will get any jobs. This not highly specialized or skilled work and there are plenty of shoppers in most areas who can and will perform the work at the fee initially offered by the company. If there are no other shoppers in your area then you can likely negotiate higher fees when shoppers have not taken the work at the offered fee and the work deadlines are approaching. The law of supply and demand enters this business on two levels. First there is strong competition among companies for those clients still willing to pay to have their establishments shopped (and during this economic period there increasingly fewer of those). Cut rate contracts with clients leads to cut rate offers to ICs and historically shopper fees go DOWN when a client moves from one company to another and often even year by year when the client stays with the same company. The second level of competition is from other shoppers in your area. A $5 fee for the store next door may be perfect for me but since it is 15 miles from you, you certainly would want a higher fee to do it. Then there are the shoppers who are desperate to pay the past due rent versus those who are saving for a special vacation in three years. Different shopper motivations reduce the threshhold fee needed to get jobs done. It is what the 'free market' is about and because you are an IC, minimum wage does not apply.

Some companies start with very low fees and progressively raise them during the month as shops linger untaken. It is a business model that works for them as, for example, in my market their job board is pretty much cleared at rock bottom prices and within the past several years no job has risen to a fee I am willing to accept. Other companies start and end with the same fee and if the shop is not taken, c'est la vie. Still other companies leave the fee on their boards the same but negotiate with their proven shoppers towards the end of the month for a bonus needed to get it done.

You have been really helpful with your explanations. Much appreciated. It pays to ask questions. Information worthwhile. Thank you.