I understand exactly what you mean. I would never do those type of shops for $3.00. I have done some phone shops and luckily they had easy surveys and they also paid a lot more. We should be able to see the form before excepting a shop. I usually ask to see it before I accept. You're right, don't work for free.

OHHH I am so glad to see I am not the only one that has experienced this, all too frequently.. I have issues when MSC's insist by having one sign a contract of stating their integrity, honest and reliable. Can shoppers have these same MSC's sign a similar document? I have been duped into these types of jobs and they in fact lower ones overall score. I have removed myself from certain MSC's for this exact reason. Up to this point as an evaluator, MSC's need to realized that they too, are being evaluated. Unfortunately the only recourse is deactivating your profile, and or mentally noting this info , but I too have issues. FYI A scheduler once said to me (over the phone, when seeking someone to piCk up an assignment) that I had one of the highest scores they had seen of the shoppers that worked for this MSC..... I recogniozed why ... in the end, I no longer do shops for them. They were systematically weeding out their shoppers. Why do so many companies need new shopers (outside of diversity, and location issues)? Flakes and low scores, now get the benefit of the doubt from me.

I do Intellishop's oil change shops, but will not do their car dealer shops.

They want a shopper to be responsible if the salesperson does not give a business card. They want a shopper to listen to the salesperson's presentation but I can not ask the sales person to elaborate on a feature or benefit. They want to know what the salesperson knows without prompting the salesperson.

Real shoppers ask a sales person to demonstrate or explain further when they are interested in a benefit or feature. If the shopper is passive the salesperson will think I am not interested and shut down their presentation and will not give a business card at the end.

I do not do shops when the guidelines refuse to allow me to act as a shopper would normally act.

Piled Hip Deep, PHD Wrote:

> Real shoppers ask a sales person to demonstrate or
> explain further when they are interested in a
> benefit or feature. If the shopper is passive the
> salesperson will think I am not interested and
> shut down their presentation and will not give a
> business card at the end.
>
> I do not do shops when the guidelines refuse to
> allow me to act as a shopper would normally act.


I notice this with a lot of shops. I get it...the client wants to know if the employees take initiative.But, heck, these scenarios are often so contrived. If a salesperson or employee mentions something I am interested in (on-line banking, for example) or mentions a feature I might not know about (a V-6 engine, for example) I ask questions in real life. I don't just stand there, waiting. I doubt that anyone does.

I've never seen a car salesman who won't give a business card. One last weekend gave me 3 or 4! I'm okay with letting them give their presentation and keeping my part to a minimum. It's not up to me to help them do their job better. Well, it is with the report, but not during the shop. A shopper can show interest without leading. Being "passive" is not going to give them the opportunity to close the sale. During demos I often say things like, "What a great feature" "I really like that" and other things to convey my interest without leading.

LisaSTL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've never seen a car salesman who won't give a
> business card. One last weekend gave me 3 or 4!
> I'm okay with letting them give their presentation
> and keeping my part to a minimum. It's not up to
> me to help them do their job better. Well, it is
> with the report, but not during the shop. A
> shopper can show interest without leading. Being
> "passive" is not going to give them the
> opportunity to close the sale. During demos I
> often say things like, "What a great feature" "I
> really like that" and other things to convey my
> interest without leading.


I so agree! It is hard for a newbie not to help the sales person along because we know what the company is looking for and without a question here or there, it could happen that alot of the pitch is not given, hence more work on the report! I hate to have negative results cause I know I am going to have to put in more time on the reports. I do it, though when it is deserved. I still wonder though how much negative MSC's want on the reports. Seems like I always get a lower score when I say anything (even like the person did not mention so and so) negative.

Anyone has a system that works for them on keeping track of the "good" shops and the "better" MSC's to work for?

I've been lucky because my car dealerships have been video shops. While there is a report it's all backed up by my film.

richraynor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think their editors are way too strict. If I
> owned a Shopping company, I would hire editors
> that can fix problems, not bog down the process
> with silly crap. If there is a simple grammar
> mistake, JUST FIX IT! We are experts at shopping,
> not writers. Most shopping companies just fix an
> error and let it rip, unless it changes important
> factual items in the report, of course. Enough of
> my soap box! LOL!


VERY short sighted. We are not 'shoppers'. We are gathering information to be presented to management in a way that is easily understood and accurate. If one cannot communicate one's observations following conventional rules of grammar and spelling, one probably ought be looking for a different type of job.

I have done 15 shops for I-S, been rated on 9 of them so far, and maintain a 10 average. I got ONE 9, and it was entirely my fault for using a phrase like "the floors seemed to be well maintained" which is ambiguous.

I have been in business for myself 41 years and this shopping is more of a hobby than a job for me. Nevertheless, every shop I take, be it a $4 phone shop for a bank or a $100 bonused shop, gets my full attention, my absolute best efforts, and a report tailored to the needs and style of the particular mystery shopping provider.

Those editors are actually quite a resource; try thanking them when you get a rating email, strike up an acquaintanceship, and the good ones will teach you more than you ever knew you could know about the format requirements for each MS company.

Bottom line: If you cannot, or will not, do the best job you can, have enough pride to do something else.

Just my opinion, yours of course may differ.

AnonymousGirl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for the heads up. I just cancelled my
> pending apps. Another MSC that does this is
> Mystery Shoppers Inc. They want you to be detailed
> and at the end, the final question is...explain
> everything that happened, step by step. do not
> copy and paste the above.


Some places do get a bit anal on things. I just go elsewhere. Always come here to this forum and share your good experiences and bad ones as well.

Don, shopping Las Vegas

SpyGirl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, one difference here is that because I did
> not understand just how long these were actually
> going to take, I did not plan that much time in my
> afternoon to do them, and I had other commitments.
> These had to be done before 3 pm and I did not
> have time to do two, let alone three, in that
> amount of time. Plus, I think maybe these MSC's
> need to understand that we, as shoppers, are not
> going to stand for their ying and presenting
> something in a way they know darn well isn't the
> case, just to get someone to accept them and risk
> demerits if they choose not to do it. How else
> will anything ever change if no one stands up to
> it? I've done other phone shops that didn't have
> requirements anything like this, so how else could
> I know that in advance? I couldn't. If it makes
> them mad and I'm thrown out, fine. I'll take that
> consequence and obviously will not work for them
> ever again.
>
>
> ahmaynard Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yeah I have a couple of 'easy' shops that
> aren't
> > so easy but I'm committed to completing them
> and
> > just won't take them again in the future.

ArtFromNY Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> richraynor Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I think their editors are way too strict. If I
> > owned a Shopping company, I would hire editors
> > that can fix problems, not bog down the process
> > with silly crap. If there is a simple grammar
> > mistake, JUST FIX IT! We are experts at
> shopping,
> > not writers. Most shopping companies just fix
> an
> > error and let it rip, unless it changes
> important
> > factual items in the report, of course. Enough
> of
> > my soap box! LOL!
>
>
> VERY short sighted. We are not 'shoppers'. We
> are gathering information to be presented to
> management in a way that is easily understood and
> accurate. If one cannot communicate one's
> observations following conventional rules of
> grammar and spelling, one probably ought be
> looking for a different type of job.
>
> I have done 15 shops for I-S, been rated on 9 of
> them so far, and maintain a 10 average. I got ONE
> 9, and it was entirely my fault for using a phrase
> like "the floors seemed to be well maintained"
> which is ambiguous.
>
> I have been in business for myself 41 years and
> this shopping is more of a hobby than a job for
> me. Nevertheless, every shop I take, be it a $4
> phone shop for a bank or a $100 bonused shop, gets
> my full attention, my absolute best efforts, and a
> report tailored to the needs and style of the
> particular mystery shopping provider.
>
> Those editors are actually quite a resource; try
> thanking them when you get a rating email, strike
> up an acquaintanceship, and the good ones will
> teach you more than you ever knew you could know
> about the format requirements for each MS
> company.
>
> Bottom line: If you cannot, or will not, do the
> best job you can, have enough pride to do
> something else.

> Just my opinion, yours of course may differ.


Really Art?
You want to make your first post to this forum a lecture and suggest that these hard working shoppers should get out of the business if they do not agree with all MSC's sometimes unfair policies? Yes we are shoppers. The whole job is about posing as a real shopper and report the experience.

"The whole job is about posing as a real shopper and report the experience."

You said it exactly right - so do the whole job - not just the first half, which is the easy part, but the second as well - do the report to the standards of grammar and spelling which we all should have been taught in school (being in my 60s, I actually WAS taught grammar

What I actually meant was that if one doesn't like the rules under which one must work, one would be best served by changing employers, and if that still chafes, change industries.

If one is willing to accept the check, one should have the good grace not to blatt and whine about the conditions under which the check is earned.

Just my opinion of course, I thought I would express it, and I am completely unconcerned about what others think of my opinion, just as I would expect them to not care what I think of theirs.

Art--looking forward to hearing from you after you have been shopping for a while...and by a while I mean long enough to have experienced some of the less desirable aspects of mystery shopping--having instructions/guidelines change mid course, being sent to the wrong address, being told you will not be paid for a job because of something outside your control. ETC. One of my favorite such experiences was going to an address that turned out to be the wrong business. I had called in the morning and the receptionist answered with the "correct" company name. I asked the receptionist the hours, which is what I was required to do. I spent 45 minutes in traffic. When I got to the address, I discovered that the establishment went by the name of the company I was supposed to shop, but was something else entirely. I called the MSC immediately and was told, gee...sorry. our bad. we should have checked. we gave you the wrong info. but, nope, you don't get paid. we put these stories on the forum because we want other shoppers to know about and learn from our experiences. And when we screw up, we want others to share our pain and frustration. We are ICs and as such we work alone. We don't have "co-workers to chat with every day and to provide support. Sorry if you think we are whining.

ArtFromNY Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "The whole job is about posing as a real shopper
> and report the experience."
>
> You said it exactly right - so do the whole job -
> not just the first half, which is the easy part,
> but the second as well - do the report to the
> standards of grammar and spelling which we all
> should have been taught in school (being in my
> 60s, I actually WAS taught grammar
>
> What I actually meant was that if one doesn't like
> the rules under which one must work, one would be
> best served by changing employers, and if that
> still chafes, change industries.
>
> If one is willing to accept the check, one should
> have the good grace not to blatt and whine about
> the conditions under which the check is earned.
>
> Just my opinion of course, I thought I would
> express it, and I am completely unconcerned about
> what others think of my opinion, just as I would
> expect them to not care what I think of theirs.

jersey07032 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Art--looking forward to hearing from you after you
> have been shopping for a while...and by a while I
> mean long enough to have experienced some of the
> less desirable aspects of mystery shopping--having
> instructions/guidelines change mid course, being
> sent to the wrong address, being told you will not
> be paid for a job because of something outside
> your control. ETC. One of my favorite such
> experiences was going to an address that turned
> out to be the wrong business. I had called in the
> morning and the receptionist answered with the
> "correct" company name. I asked the receptionist
> the hours, which is what I was required to do. I
> spent 45 minutes in traffic. When I got to the
> address, I discovered that the establishment went
> by the name of the company I was supposed to shop,
> but was something else entirely. I called the MSC
> immediately and was told, gee...sorry. our bad.
> we should have checked. we gave you the wrong
> info. but, nope, you don't get paid. we put these
> stories on the forum because we want other
> shoppers to know about and learn from our
> experiences. And when we screw up, we want others
> to share our pain and frustration. We are ICs and
> as such we work alone. We don't have "co-workers
> to chat with every day and to provide support.
> Sorry if you think we are whining.
>
> ArtFromNY Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "The whole job is about posing as a real
> shopper
> > and report the experience."
> >
> > You said it exactly right - so do the whole job
> -
> > not just the first half, which is the easy
> part,
> > but the second as well - do the report to the
> > standards of grammar and spelling which we all
> > should have been taught in school (being in my
> > 60s, I actually WAS taught grammar
> >
> > What I actually meant was that if one doesn't
> like
> > the rules under which one must work, one would
> be
> > best served by changing employers, and if that
> > still chafes, change industries.
> >
> > If one is willing to accept the check, one
> should
> > have the good grace not to blatt and whine
> about
> > the conditions under which the check is earned.
> >
> > Just my opinion of course, I thought I would
> > express it, and I am completely unconcerned
> about
> > what others think of my opinion, just as I
> would
> > expect them to not care what I think of theirs.

me
Yes Jersey I am all over that. Increasingly I am not getting full info so that I can make a reasonable decision to accept a shop or not.
I do not want to cancel shops I just want to be informed. Imagine if someone was bidding on a contract for let's say a contsruction job and you did not have the full information. This is just professional business practices. And hello to Art we can all use grammar and spell.
Most of us have degrees and post graduate degress. If you wamt to be at the party then say something helpful. So far you have not.

jersey07032 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Art--looking forward to hearing from you after you
> have been shopping for a while...and by a while I
> mean long enough to have experienced some of the
> less desirable aspects of mystery shopping--having
> instructions/guidelines change mid course, being
> sent to the wrong address, being told you will not
> be paid for a job because of something outside
> your control.

Been there - showed up for an evaluation of a heath insurance enroller, did the shop, then did not get paid ($45) because the agent had called in sick earlier in the day but decided later to go to work - according to the client "enroller absent will not accept the shop" so according to the MS company, "client will not pay so neither will we"

Had a car dealer shop - verified the phone # on the assignment matched the address, called ahead, phone answered "XYZ Porsche-Audi" receptionist verified address, verified the address, got a positive resopnse to "do you sell Audi" and went to the shop. You must already be sensing that there was not an Audi in sight, salesman said they had not sold Audi at that location for over a year, you guessed it, no pay ($22.50).

My point is that things like that are a cost of doing business. I don't measure profit per job, I measure net dollars ( total checks minus gas, tolls, prorated cost of my phone and internet provider, and depreciation on the vehicle) received vs total hours invested on a monthly basis. As soon as that figure drops under $30, time to recalculate and look to sell that block of time somewhere else the next month.

But what I was complaining about in the original post was not the people b***hing about lost payments due to MSP company mess ups. That seemed like a perfectly understandable gripe. I was objecting to the post about a shopper getting dinged because correct grammar was not used in the reports. When you take a job, learn the requirements. If you cannot or will not write to the expectations of the employer, you are in the wrong business.

But even what you are saying is practically impossible when 50 companies have 50 different rules and they don't even make it clear what they want. A company dinged me after I used their own sample narrative as a template which referred to the employee by their title. My crystal ball was in the shop or I would have know they really wanted me to use the name of the person even though it was not stated anywhere in the instructions.

My impression of the original posting about editors was that it is just more expedient for an editor to fix something minor rather than go back and forth for days on end. This is a far cry from a shopper slacking off and the editor having to rewrite a report. While I realize there are a few "perfect" shoppers, most of us are not. You really cannot say that one part of the job is that much more important than the other. We have to perform the shop correctly AND report it correctly. If I submit a thorough, detailed report an occasional misspelled word or misplaced comma is not the end of the world.

cynb made a good point. Why join a forum to start slamming other members? Many of us disagree on things and don't hesitate to make that clear, but you might want to get to know the players first.

I just did one for a sporting goods store. On the paperwork it said Fitness Equipment and that I was to start talking at the trendmills. I wasted an hour of my time just to get home and find out the report was on ping pong tables. The scheduler made me go back and redo the shop which took me another 40 minutes of my time.

I always try to skim through to be sure the guidelines and the report "match" in what they are covering. Is this what happened? The guidelines said one thing but the report showed a different targeted area? I've come across that with numerous companies - where apparently the guidelines have not been written specific to the target area. Very confusing. Sorry you got caught in this. It's upsetting to do a shop and then find you can't do the report and get paid. It is fortunate that you had not spent a lot of time doing the report, and it's good that the scheduler allowed you to go back and redo the shop. Some companies snatch it away and give it to someone else when there's been an error in performing it.....so at least you had the opportunity to complete it and get paid so you got something for your time spent, although it meant a second trip and turned out to be more time spent than it would normally have been.

LisaSTL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But even what you are saying is practically
> impossible when 50 companies have 50 different
> rules and they don't even make it clear what they
> want. A company dinged me after I used their own
> sample narrative as a template which referred to
> the employee by their title. My crystal ball was
> in the shop or I would have know they really
> wanted me to use the name of the person even
> though it was not stated anywhere in the
> instructions.

That situation was not part of my comments, and I agree that there are huge inconsistencies between MSPs and even internally within the same MSP. I took me a month or 2 to start figuring out which companies were not worth the time, either because the never had shops above $15, or the schedulers were not as good as other companies, or the report system was balky or otherwise technically flawed.


>
> My impression of the original posting about
> editors was that it is just more expedient for an
> editor to fix something minor rather than go back
> and forth for days on end.

That sets a precedent mentioned by another poster here who accurately stated that as the MSP starts letting little things slide, the quality of the first submission shops inexorably starts to deteriorate simply because the shopper knows that 'little' things will get by. That is not a condemnation, just a recognition that human nature is hard wired for the best return for the least effort, dating back to when we picked the berries off the low branches first as we evolved from whatever species we were before.



While I realize there are a few
> "perfect" shoppers, most of us are not.

I know for darn sure that I am not one of the perfect ones, or a perfect anything (well, some will say that I can be a perfect a**, but I digress



>
> cynb made a good point. Why join a forum to start
> slamming other members?

I didn't join to slam anyone - I joined intending to start looking at a way to systematize credit reporting of the MSP companies to help shoppers avoid the bad ones. That in turn was triggered by my still not being paid for work done in early and mid-September by a fairly large and well known MSP.
I think that there may be a small but easy profit center in maintaining a database similar to TRW or Experian which warehouses late pay reports by shoppers and charging a small fee for shopper access. I have my IT guy looking into the mechanics of it now; if he says it is feasible I need to look at the legalities.
It may turn out that discussing late pay is an ICA violation in which case the idea was useless.

Again I don't agree with the statement regarding an MSC "letting little things slide" automatically results in reports deteriorating and the implication that it will become intentional on the part of the shopper. The suggestion was for the minor mistake to simply be caught and corrected in editing. Many companies grade and/or provide feedback on reports and don't hesitate to use it to let the shopper know there was an error. We are often finding the feedback provided does not offer any specifics and ultimately the shopper is left in the dark regarding ways to improve their report. The reason shoppers post here about the vague feedback is because they want to know what was done wrong and make every effort to improve future reports.

As in any business there are bound to be slackers. The MSC has the option of deactivating shoppers who do not follow reporting guidelines and consistently provide inferior reports. In general, people who visit a forum like this and post on a regular basis are professionals and feel it important to do the best job they can.

Here's my take on this.Some MSC, schedulers, and editors are first rate. They do their best to be accessible and fair. They make it all worth while. Unfortunately, there are others who challenge my patience and good will. And that is to varying degrees. Bare's editors are inconsistent. And they are often wrong. I have come to accept that. As long as they pay me, and so far, they always have, I don't really care. I do care about those who are just plain inconsiderate or unfair. I am dealing with a scheduler for Coast to Coast who claims she never received an email from me--even after I have copied and then forwarded the original to her. StN once refused to pay me because I did not see a "kiosk." I saw shelves and put that in my report. When I explained, I was basically called a liar--no, not in those words. The editor could have and should have changed the word shelf to kiosk. The report was valid except for this one word. StN is off my list of acceptable companies to work for. Unfortunately,the scheduler who claims not to have received my email schedules for several companies. I know she is lying. I suspect she missed the email, did not reschedule the shop or give it to someone else, and is now covering her you know what. But I might have to suck up on this one. Bare stays on my list, because--even though their editors often leave much to be desired--they pay. The company that sent me to the wrong enterprise (right address, wrong company!) and then would not pay is still on my list--for the time being, at least--because I like their shops and have not had any other problems with them. Meanwhile, I appreciate everyone who has HELPFUL things to say. I joined this Forum because I want to learn how to be a better shopper, not to be condescended to.

jersey - Rethink StN - they have the easiest $75 shops I have ever seen - make an appointment with a medicare managed care enroller, listen to the pitch (never had one over 40 minutes) and do the report - if you live a dense enough area you can do 4 or 5 in a day - that makes starting the car in the morning kind of worth while

re: condescension - if you can use the word correctly in a sentence, properly spelled, as you did, you are not the kind of shopper to whom I was referring as grammar challenged

re: goodwill and patience - these MSP outfits are in business to write us checks, not massage our self-esteem and reward our patience - suck it up and cash the check, as you seem to indicate you are doing

I realize that I have offended people here, ruffled feathers, maybe even (GASP!) bruised someone's feelings and self image

That said, that was not my intention, just collateral damage. I guess being in business for 41 years has given me a different perspective than most people have. I am blunt, direct, not as polite as I could be, and most certainly not PC in a joyously delighted way. I do however know how to run a business, run staff, evaluate opportunities, and even now and then make money. I have found that no customer is perfect, all customers are self-oriented, and almost all have personality quirks that can be managed and exploited. Taking the time to get to know schedulers - really know them, what they need, what their boss needs, what they do for fun, how their bonuses and pay are determined, really helps. You can get better assignments, get assignments emailed directly for your review and acceptance before they are posted as available, get extensions, get bonuses beyond any rational amount, and the list goes on.

This is a business and you need to ask yourself, why do I do this? Is it for fun, to fill an empty day? That's a really good reason to shop and it is rewarding in its own right. If that is your reason to shop, then the personal issues do matter - it is not fun to be called a liar, for example.

On the other hand, if the reason you shop is to put a few hundred bucks in your pocket every day you go out, the BS from the schedulers and editors really doesn't matter; putting up with it is just one more requirement of the shop, just like down-to-the-second timing or describing a person in a non-judgemental way. The customer's personality is just one more factor in determining profitability.

Anyway, I ramble. I have probably pissed off more people than my weekly allotment allows, so I will stop whilst not too far behind

AustinMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I always try to skim through to be sure the
> guidelines and the report "match" in what they are
> covering. Is this what happened? The guidelines
> said one thing but the report showed a different
> targeted area? I've come across that with
> numerous companies - where apparently the
> guidelines have not been written specific to the
> target area. Very confusing. Sorry you got
> caught in this. It's upsetting to do a shop and
> then find you can't do the report and get paid.
> It is fortunate that you had not spent a lot of
> time doing the report, and it's good that the
> scheduler allowed you to go back and redo the
> shop. Some companies snatch it away and give it
> to someone else when there's been an error in
> performing it.....so at least you had the
> opportunity to complete it and get paid so you got
> something for your time spent, although it meant a
> second trip and turned out to be more time spent
> than it would normally have been.


Both the guidelines and paperwork said the same thing.

Art,

The Msc to which you referred may well pay $75 in NY, but in OH it's $20 for a Medicare meeting, whether with a group or as an individual. When I began accepting those assignments in 2007, the average pay was $55 + mileage; I no longer apply.

"Funny" how some MSCs assess payment for shops. EPMSs base pay for shops in Asheville NC is $10 less than it is for my area. And the COL is higher there than here. That's just one example.

shopperbob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Art,
>
> The Msc to which you referred may well pay $75 in
> NY, but in OH it's $20 for a Medicare meeting,
> whether with a group or as an individual. When I
> began accepting those assignments in 2007, the
> average pay was $55 + mileage; I no longer apply.