I am not happy as I type this at 5am...this is a very long post becuase I do not know how to write short posts. Feel free to skip on by if you dont have time to read.....

Some background...
Some of you know that we had a large tree from a neighboring property fall on to our detached garage last January. Mom had let her homeowner's insurance lapse, so there was no insurance to cover it. It is a toss up as to whether the owner of the property where the tree fell from is legally responsible. Generally state law here requires there be some negligence involved. In this case, the property owner is a rental company (a shady one at that), and we had not informed them that the tree was dead and leaning in our direction. That particular tree was in the back of their property behind many more trees, so it was too visible from their end. It really was not very visible from our end either as it was a double-trunk tree and the trunk I could see leaned the opposite way. So I was quite shocked with it came crashing down as I didn't realize there was a second trunk. While the property company did respond and removed other dead trees, my requests for some sort of compromise on paying for the damage went unanswered. I wanted to talk to an attorney about all of this, but everybody wanted a minimum of $300-$400 to even talk to me for an hour. And without being Mom's Power of Attorney (she won't give that up - yet), it seemed like waste as I could not take any legal action on her behalf. My brother does not help, and my sister cannot help. Everything falls on me, from caring for her, caring part-time for my sister, taking care of the house, and running my business. My hope was that I was going to get something from my dad's estate so I could pay for the repairs myself. That all fell through about six weeks ago.

Fast-forward and God gave us a blessing this week so I can not only get the garage repaired, but also a new roof on the house. The house roof is nearly 35 years old and leaks in several places. I moved very quickly to find a contractor. Back in the spring when I tried to get initial estimates, I had a difficult problem getting anybody to call me back. There are a lot of lazy people here who do not want big jobs or only want to work when they need the money. When a company finally did call me, they showed up and gave me an estimate of about $15k just for the garage. I have to have 8 trusses replaced, so it is more than the roof. I recently saw a sign for a company that I didn't recognize from my calls in the spring, so I wrote down their information in case I was able to get the repairs done. I called them, talked to the owner. He was driving at the time and asked me to text my information to him and he would have his sales person contact me. Based on my experience in the spring when people didn't call me back, I really did not expect anybody to call. To my shock, the sales guy called within an hour and set up an appointment for Thursday at 12pm. I was already impressed for the simple reason they kept their word and called me back promptly. Then, on Thursday, they called an hour before the appointment to make sure we were still good to meet. I appreciate that very much. The company that gave me the estimate in the Spring did not even call me. They just showed up two days later at 8am when I was still asleep. Here is a tip, that is a great way to piss me off.

I met with the owner and the salesman as scheduled on Thursday. They were dressed nicely, looked professional, their vehicle looked professional. In other words, it wasn't some junk van they were using. I was immediately impressed by them and something in me said, yes, these are the guys I want. They looked at the garage and they showed me some photos of previous work they had done. I had already read some reviews on their website and on Yelp. They have rave reviews. The owner told me that he had been doing home improvement work for about 7 years, but got so many calls from people wanting new roofs that he expanded his business to do full roof replacements and truss work. He even showed me some pictures of recent trusses they installed on a home that a tree had completely gone through. Before I could ask about licensing and bonding, he asked if I had an electrician to do the electoral work because he was not licensed to do the electoral work. I told him that was one of the questions I was going to ask him, and he reiterated to me that he could not do it because he was not licensed In fact, he said he knew how to do it, but legally he couldn't. But, he did know some electricians if I didn't have anybody in mind. My plan has been to wait on the electrical work, because right now I need to get the roof repairs done and can always come back later to get the lights back on in the garage. Because he emphasized he was not license to do electoral work, his answer implied to me he is licensed to do all the other repairs. Therefore, I did not specifically ask about any of that. That's my fault, because I should have certainly made sure.

While they were here, I had them give me an estimate on the house roof and new gutters. They gave me an estimate before they left. This was something else I also appreciated, as the company in the spring took a week to provide me an estimate. I told them I would talk things over with my mom, and I would let them know something Friday.

Mom has cognitive issues, good days and bad days, but anything that involved paying out large sums of money or anything that involved making big decisions, she cannot handle. The estimate on the garage came in at $12k, which is nearly $4k less than the estimate I got back in the Spring. The house roof is running about $9k, and new gutters and downspouts will cost about $4k. They are going to replace the ventilation, too, as our attic fan stopped working a decade or more ago. Other than the cost of the house gutters, I think the roof prices are reasonable. I'm not going to quibble over that gutter price. The gutters are 30+ years old, and the downspouts have been there since I was in my mom's belly. They are falling off and they need to be replaced. I think the price on the garage more than makes up for an over price on the gutters. It took multiple hour-long conversations with mom to help her understand all of this and how we are going to pay for it. Poor mom said at one point she was not going to live much longer. I cannot tell you how much this upset me. I finally got her to understand getting these repairs done is the right thing. It will help me to keep her in her home for as long as possible, and I shouldn't have to worry about a leaky roof that could be a fire hazard. Plus, having the garage fixed means I have a solid place to store my inventory. My bedroom has been an office since January. I've either slept on the floor, an air mattress, or in an extremely uncomfortable chair for the past 11 months because I had to take my bed down to run my business out of my room. Mom finally got on board with all this. I called the sales guy Thursday night and told him it was ago, and I could make the 20% deposit on Friday.

I was worried mom would outcome Friday morning, but she seems excited. I met with the salesman again to sign the contract and make a 20% down payment, which was $5k. Next Tuesday they will be back with the truss company so they can get the measurements for the trusses. I've been hyped up about this and very thankful we can get this work done. That was until early this morning. I was sitting here doing some Googling of the company re-reading the reviews, and I ran across a link to look up to see the status of a company's contractor license. To my shock, I could not find one for this company. It is possible the state's website is not updated, or maybe it is up under a different name. I can find where the owner was licensed home inspector in the past and he appeared to have always been in good standing. It looks like he let that expire about the time he started the home improvement/roofing business. I could not find anything on the current business.

As I'm typing this I'm working through my emotions here are my thoughts and concerns: First, there is no question in my mind that these guys are professional. They seemed very knowledgeable. I appreciated the photos of their work. They even offered to provide me with customer names if I wanted to talk to them. The fact they were in professional vehicles tells me they are not the type of people who wake up and say, "I think I'll go fix a roof to make some cash today." I didn't know the owner had been a licensed home inspector, but I think that does count for something. I am concerned, if in fact they are not licensed, that they mislead me. I can't understand why they would say they could not do the electoral work because they were not licensed, yet be willing to install trusses and a roof without a license. They also told me the city would have to come inspect their work which, if they were not licensed, I think they would be trying to do the work off the books from the city.

At a minimum, I for safety of my mom's well-being, I need to get the record straight one way or the other. Ideally, he tells me yes, they are licensed and provides me the number so I can look that up, rather than trying to go by the name. If he tells me, no he is not licensed, things get a lot more complicated. Given that I just provided the deposit on Friday afternoon and that the contract does not talk about formfitting the deposit if a customer cancels it, I don't think the deposit is at risk, especially if it goes back to a licensing issue and because I feel mislead. Then, I ask myself, should I even cancel? That brings me to this post. In the former industry I worked in, while I didn't need a government license, I did have extra certifications from a 3rd party in the industry. These certifications were supposed to let people know I am more knowledgeable and trustworthy than the people that didn't have the certifications. I can tell you that there were plenty of people with those same certifications that didn't know crap. I know of several of them that outright gave wrong information to the public that put people's lives in danager. I even filed complaints and nothing was done. I also know people who did not have the certifications that are much smarter than me and had the skills needed to excel in the industry. So I know that even when it comes to contractors, a government liscense does not tell me whether someone has the skill to do a job correctly. The other thing I have to consider is that we still do not have insurance on the property. We can't get it until that garage is fixed. I did inform the owner of that when I met with him on Thursday. If he is liscned, then he sure would have insurane as I think that is part of the lisceneing requirment. If he is not liscened, it becomes an issue of if someone gets hurts, then what. I can't have him or one of his employees suing me or my mom. I won't put that at risk. So if he is not liscened and I decide to have him to do the work, I'll have to tell him I'll need him to sign something to not hold us libal if anybody gets hurts.

I really do not want to have to go back to the drawing board beause it is so hard to get anything done in this crackhead city. If you find anybody decent to do work, you've got to hold on to them because 80% of them don't give a crap.

Thoughts?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2024 11:11AM by ServiceAward.

I have had a handyman do work for me that technically a licensed professional should have done - replacing a wall switch and some lights comes to mind - but that was minor work, and I trusted that he knew what he was doing. I probably wouldn’t trust an unlicensed person to do structural and roofing work.

Before you go into a complete panic, find out from them if they’re licensed. Ask for their license number and look it up. If they say they aren’t, then my question to them would be, “Why not?”

Generally, I go to a Bricks and Mortar business. They do the work or hire the contractors.
I trust ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯
that they know the licencing needs and have Workers Comp, etc.
My brother is in the trades and this is what he advised me to do since I am not very knowledgeable.
I'm not in the states so not knowledgeable at all about it.

Sounds like you've found a decent company.¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

I have no suggestion.

Sorry, this may not be helpful and apply, but I don't think I ever vetted for a contractor to be a licensed professional. Where I currently live, it's a newer neighborhood where all of the houses were built at the same time and are comparable to each other. Through neighbors and referrals, mostly everyone uses the same people once they have a track record on a number of houses.

Where I lived previously, a friend who was heavily involved in rental real estate would refer me to contractors.

Depending on how much work you're getting done, you could look into asking for a discount due to the amount of work or getting additional opinions and quotes. If it makes sense, you could show the other written quotes to the contractor to try to reduce the cost. You could maybe also get a discount if you pay in cash with a reputable contractor. Make sure to keep track of all of the home improvements you're making to the primary residence when you sell later.

Not related, but one example in the financial industry, certification is really only needed from a practical purpose to sign off, attest to, or sell something. The education, exam, and work experience may be high more so for barrier to entry or difficulty to achieve. But only needed if you want to advance to a certain level or working in a public client-facing field/industry.

I texted the owner this afternoon and he called me promptly. First, he apologized if he did not make something clear and caused any confusion. Second, he explained and he and his business partner are licensed under Company X and that's how I would find it listed on the state board of licensing website. Spun off from Company X, is company Y, a home improvement company, and then his most recent company, Company Z, which is the roofing company. The sub-companies are not individually listened, because the state just takes so much money to keep up with all that. He explained if it is the job is a large job, like building a home or some of their commercial work, they do that under Company X. I did check the state licensing board and Company X checks out and is active and current. Company X appears to be located on adjacent property of Company Y and Company Z.
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When he was initially met with me on Thursday, his first impression was that it was going to be a $30k+ dollar job due to the cost of the trusses. However, while prepping the estimate and figuring up how many trusses are actually needed to be replaced (he originally thought 10), the cost for the garage came in lower, which lowered the overall cost of the job. So, he proceeded to do the work under the sub-company due to the cost of the job, and he would not get the permit like he thought he would have to do since the number of trusses I actually need are less than what he initially thought. To be sure, he said what I actually need are 8 trusses, which is what the other company I had out here last spring told me. That information lines up and it also appears to me that only 8 trusses are damaged, everything else in the front half of the garage looks great and intact. The truss company is still coming Tuesday to look at everything, so that could change, but he didn't think it would. He did tell me if I want him to go through and get the permitting, the city charges around $2k for that, so it would make the cost more, but generally on this type of job they would not do that. As far as insurance, he said he is insured for 2 million. He has to have 1 million to do residential, but because he does a lot of commercial work, he is insured for 2 million. He offered to bring his insurance paperwork with him when he comes back with the Truss company Tuesday. He also seemed to want to genuinely make sure if I was just uncertain, that it was okay to do away with the contract and he could give me my deposit back, but he asked to please make that decision before he starts buying materials for this project. He did emphasize he wanted me to be comfortable with them, but that he is very proud of their work. I noticed on his business page his wife had posted him a Happy Father's Day message this year and told him she is proud of how hard he works to provide for his family. I do like this guy. I like him much, much better than the shady company from the spring, even though they bragged about all their licensing. They were overpriced, rude, and pushy. That was on top of not calling me back and just showing up early in the morning unannounced.

I think I am going to move forward. Him having insurance is the main thing so I don't put what little mom has at risk. I do believe they do quality work, so I do not have concerns about that.

Thank you for your input and I still welcome any other thoughts. @Okie, that was similar to how it was in my industry. If you wanted to move up, you got those 3rd party certifications mainly because it helped with getting a better position with more money because your company could promote you as being more accurate and knowledgeable. As I said though, I know many people who went through those certifications and the training to get them, and they would turn around when everything hit the fan and put out wrong information that put people's lives in danger. When I reported said people, the certifications were not revoked. I then asked myself, why am I putting myself thorough paying all these extra fees for that crap?

Glad to hear that he explained things further!

That sounds like malpractice with what you mentioned! When I used to work in professional services, non-managers would get incentivized with a bonus for obtaining a license/certification. The company would pay for your education, review courses, and exam fees, but it was done on your own time. The reason being is when you worked on a client, they could increase the hourly rate charged/billed to the client with you having a professional license, and it's seen as a marketing tool when you add it to your business card and signature. When you become manager, it was required. Also, depending on where you work, it's a move up or out type mentality/culture.

@Okie wrote:

Glad to hear that he explained things further!

That sounds like malpractice with what you mentioned! When I used to work in professional services, non-managers would get incentivized with a bonus for obtaining a license/certification. The company would pay for your education, review courses, and exam fees, but it was done on your own time. The reason being is when you worked on a client, they could increase the hourly rate charged/billed to the client with you having a professional license, and it's seen as a marketing tool when you add it to your business card and signature. When you become manager, it was required. Also, depending on where you work, it's a move up or out type mentality/culture.

As I thought about this further over the weekend, I was talking with a friend of mine who is a client of a certain organization. (I also used to be a client.) The organization has a 3rd party company come in every year and "certify" them in certain areas. We both have personal knowledge that prior to the review people coming in to conduct the evaluation, the organization spends a month or more getting ready, so that by the time they are reviewed, everything looks great. The problem is during the other 11 months of the year, the place goes to sh**. The certification, though widely seen as something that sets them apart, means squat.

The contractor did provide to me his proof of liability insurance. I verified it with the insurance company today and everything checked out. So, I think I'm good.

Glad you're finally getting this taken care of, honey. It'll be a huge thing to cross out on your to-do list.

ServiceAward, If you feel the contractor is being upfront with you and your gut instinct tells you to proceed, then do so. However, I have watched enough HGTV to know unpermitted work often comes back to bite people. I have read several times that it is wise to verify on your own the current status of a contractor's insurance and license. That means you ask for the name and policy number of the insurance company and call yourself to verify the policy. What if he once had insurance and let the policy lapse? He could still have the paperwork but it would be worthless. I would request he provide the name and polity number of the insurance company. Call your city or county permit office and find out exactly what permits you are legally obliguated to get. I do not believe the answer is based on the cost of the job, but the complexity of the work. Ask the truss company if they require permits be pulled.

@Dandydew wrote:

ServiceAward, If you feel the contractor is being upfront with you and your gut instinct tells you to proceed, then do so. However, I have watched enough HGTV to know unpermitted work often comes back to bite people. I have read several times that it is wise to verify on your own the current status of a contractor's insurance and license. That means you ask for the name and policy number of the insurance company and call yourself to verify the policy. What if he once had insurance and let the policy lapse? He could still have the paperwork but it would be worthless. I would request he provide the name and polity number of the insurance company. Call your city or county permit office and find out exactly what permits you are legally obliguated to get. I do not believe the answer is based on the cost of the job, but the complexity of the work. Ask the truss company if they require permits be pulled.

Thank you, @Dandydew, for your thoughts. I appreciate it! I may not have made clear in my follow-up post, he is licensed. It was just through the main company not the "branded" companies up under the main one. His insurance is up-to-date. He gave me a copy of his certificate of liability, and I verified it is accurate with the insurance company. He is paid up through July 2025, so I'm good there.

I was concerned about the permit issue. This morning the contractor along with the building supply company and the truss company came by to get various measurements and ensure all the supplies needed will be available. I talked to my contractor about the permit again as my concern was that a city inspector might notice the new roof on the house, which I'm also having replaced. The contractor explained that to change out shingles, no permit is needed. If they had to replace out more than 25% of the sheathing, then for a livable structure they would need a permit for that. For the house roof, while there may be a few boards that have to be replaced, it is nowhere near the 25% threshold. As long as you are replacing something that is already existing, no permit needed, whether that is a roof, a window, a door, etc. This is when it comes to something structural. As for the garage, with it not being a livable structure (it is not heated/cooled) and no plans for it to ever be livable, there is more wiggle room when it comes to replacing the trusses. In my case, it turns out only 5 trusses will be replaced. Essentially nobody will know. The only difference will be the new trusses will have hurricane ties, whereas the existing ones one. He said if it was replacing all 20 trusses, or a full blow out new construction, then yes, he would definitely go the permit roof. In this case, based on his experience, he thinks it is better for me to save my money then rather risk an inspector coming out and getting onto me about the stress cracks in one of the walls or wanting me to go ahead and have my lighting rehung and wiring replaced right now.

ServiceAward, it sounds like you're doing everything right. The thing I would caution you to be aware of if they subcontract the job out.

With the electrical, most municipalites want a licensed electrician to at least bid the job. Doesnt mean they will be doing the work. In my experience electrical needs a permit unless, as mentioned above, it's installing a new switch or outlet inside where nobody sees. But not a complete rewire of your garage.

IMHO, if the contractor was shady and knew how to do it, he would have accepted the rewire no permit and go for it. This guy seems genuinely concerned about loosing his contractor license. Just my opinion.

If you live where hurricane ties are needed you might ask how much of an add on it would be to add to the other joists. Or if its exposed rafters to the walls DIY. if its between the rafters and the sheething, nevermind I brought it up

@wrosie wrote:

ServiceAward, it sounds like you're doing everything right. The thing I would caution you to be aware of if they subcontract the job out.

With the electrical, most municipalites want a licensed electrician to at least bid the job. Doesnt mean they will be doing the work. In my experience electrical needs a permit unless, as mentioned above, it's installing a new switch or outlet inside where nobody sees. But not a complete rewire of your garage.

IMHO, if the contractor was shady and knew how to do it, he would have accepted the rewire no permit and go for it. This guy seems genuinely concerned about loosing his contractor license. Just my opinion.

If you live where hurricane ties are needed you might ask how much of an add on it would be to add to the other joists. Or if its exposed rafters to the walls DIY. if its between the rafters and the sheething, nevermind I brought it up

The electrical would need a permit. There are no exceptions for that unless you are changing out a handful of outlets. In my case, I'll probably end up having new lights hung and most of the wiring redone because some of it came down when the roof collapsed.

My plan is after I have repaid a part of my loan to deal to these roofs, I'll have a licensed electrician come in and look at what needs to be done. I'm less concerned about that since I won't be working out there, just using it as storage for my inventory. Anytime I have to go out there it will be during the day. I may pick up a few battery-powered motion lights just to give me something for the rare occasion I need to step out there at night.