I am in New York state and I am soooo thankful we have Andrew Cuomo as Governor. I live in a very small town and we have 59 cases of covid19 as of this morning. The reopening has gone smoothly. A lot of people do not social distance and also do not wear masks ....but I usually say nothing.

That's good you have a low case count! Although, I'd still be careful. I have not said anything to people who don't wear a mask, but I've been tempted to. I've held my tongue, but may get more vocal. Some dood (looked like a salesman) came to my house today and rang our doorbell. I saw him walking without a mask and chose to ignore him. Not opening my door to someone (usually, I even speak through the closed outer glass door to mask wearers) who doesn't have the courtesy to put on a mask.

I think I've developed a hatred for this country, sadly. Trump was out AGAIN this weekend mocking Biden for wearing a mask. He even mocked social distancing!!! I can only imagine how many lives we'd save and how much faster we could economically recover if our leader-in-chief would set a good example and even mandate mask wearing in America.

[www.cnbc.com]
One frequent CNBC economist said last week that our economy is struggling, b/c of a lack of trust over COVID in America. People don't trust others and don't feel comfortable in close contact situations. He likened it to banks not trusting other banks in 2008's financial crisis.

@ wrote:

“I know lots of people who are able to go out and interact in the economy. Restaurants are open, but they won’t go. We have to learn to deal with this human counterparty risk.”

I'd have to 100% agree. I've seen it in my own social circles and speaking with wealthier and older people.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2020 07:41AM by shoptastic.

@Tarantado wrote:

Forgive me of my ignorance, but what change or reform has occurred since the Rodney King incident? I am too young to remember that.

I lived there during that time. King was high on angel dust and driving 80mph through a residential area, and up to 115 mph elsewhere. He resisted arrest and it took several officers to bring him down. The video sent to the news stations has 13 seconds edited out -- 13 seconds of a huge 6'4" man who was high rising up and charging an officer a head smaller and 50# lighter. He was tased - no effect (have you ever been tased? To have no effect, something was wrong with him -- the drugs). Four LEOs tried to get him down and he threw them all off. The news only showed the officers coming to the aid of the other LEO and subduing him when they had no other choice. The lead officer made the other holster their guns so he wouldn't end up dead. The other two in the car got out and did as instructed. Not a scratch on them.

When the jury saw the whole tape, the officers were found to use reasonable force. It didn't matter. The riots were already scheduled. Yes, scheduled. Regardless of the verdict, they were going to happen. The reason? Formerly black areas of downtown had a lot of Koreans move in. The Koreans started businesses, helped one another navigate city ordinances and paperwork, and lived in close quarters until they could buy up more and more of the neighborhoods. They are an insular community; selling to the black residents, but not buying anything from them (buying from their own.) It made the Koreans prosper. The black communities felt that they were being taken advantage of. The targets of the riots were Korean businesses. The Koreans were armed, though, or the Burn Loot Murder groups of the 1990s would've made it a lot worse.

Now you're no longer ignorant of the facts. No reform was needed there. King was a felonious thug out on parole who didn't want to go back to prison and was willing to harm police officers to make sure he didn't.

@iShop123 wrote:

@Tarantado wrote:

Forgive me of my ignorance, but what change or reform has occurred since the Rodney King incident? I am too young to remember that.

I lived there during that time. King was high on angel dust and driving 80mph through a residential area, and up to 115 mph elsewhere. He resisted arrest and it took several officers to bring him down. The video sent to the news stations has 13 seconds edited out -- 13 seconds of a huge 6'4" man who was high rising up and charging an officer a head smaller and 50# lighter. He was tased - no effect (have you ever been tased? To have no effect, something was wrong with him -- the drugs). Four LEOs tried to get him down and he threw them all off. The news only showed the officers coming to the aid of the other LEO and subduing him when they had no other choice. The lead officer made the other holster their guns so he wouldn't end up dead. The other two in the car got out and did as instructed. Not a scratch on them.

When the jury saw the whole tape, the officers were found to use reasonable force. It didn't matter. The riots were already scheduled. Yes, scheduled. Regardless of the verdict, they were going to happen. The reason? Formerly black areas of downtown had a lot of Koreans move in. The Koreans started businesses, helped one another navigate city ordinances and paperwork, and lived in close quarters until they could buy up more and more of the neighborhoods. They are an insular community; selling to the black residents, but not buying anything from them (buying from their own.) It made the Koreans prosper. The black communities felt that they were being taken advantage of. The targets of the riots were Korean businesses. The Koreans were armed, though, or the Burn Loot Murder groups of the 1990s would've made it a lot worse.

Now you're no longer ignorant of the facts. No reform was needed there. King was a felonious thug out on parole who didn't want to go back to prison and was willing to harm police officers to make sure he didn't.

If the police force was justified and deemed reasonable force, why were two of the officers ultimately convicted of violating Mr. King’s civil rights in federal court?

Would that be from the jury with the jurors raising black power fists, and two of whom were reported to have come in with an immediate guilty verdict before facts were discussed? The officers were first acquitted by a jury in Simi Valley, then RETRIED in a federal court *after* the riots and convicted for using excessive force by a jury that deliberated for 7 days. It was an end run around double jeopardy, kowtowing to threats of further violence. Koon, the supervising LEO who told his officers to holster their weapons, fell on his sword, even though the full videotapes showed that he had not delivered a single blow.

Just as a side note, the thugs who beat Reginald Denny after pulling him from his vehicle were acquitted by a similar jury pool, even though the full tape was viewed and there was no doubt they beat him within an inch of his life. Their defense was that the mob made them temporarily crazy. I think ANTIFA's lawyers and the Burn Loot Murder crowd will find the case law.

I hope you understand that while there are certainly a few bad apples, most LEOs are genuinely trying to serve and protect. In my neighboring city right now, some thugs are getting a pass because government officials have shown an unwillingness to back law enforcement. That does explain the huge rise in gun ownership here. I'd hate to actually kill another person, but come after my family and it's two to the chest and one to the head.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2020 10:54PM by iShop123.

@Shop-et-al wrote:

I don't think it would be a deterrent or an incentive.Look at how many laws are on the books and how many other fines and punishments are not a deterrent to other crimes.

This is the first story I've seen of fines:
[www.cbsnews.com]
U.S. college students in Ohio test positive for COVID and break quarantine to throw a party. Police come and catch them. Several are fined $500/each.

The university says they may face suspension or dismissal too.

The wealthier people could be having theirs delivered. They may be spending as much as ever, just differently.

We are not wealthy. I have not been into a mall, (partly due to my rural life) or a restaurant, not have I traveled as usual. But my spending hasn't decreased; it has changed, mainly spent on home improvements here.

@shoptastic wrote:

So, this has been an interesting experiment. I've been driving by two Texas Roadhouses: one in an upper-middle-class city and one in a more working class one.

The one in the wealthier area has been missing about 35% of the customers that would normally show up. The one in the more working-class city has been quite packed. I wouldn't say it's back to 100%, but seems very close. Maybe 90-95% back to normal. The same seems to be true of retail and dining outlets in the two cities.

This small anecdotal experience has affirmed my thesis in other threads and what the economic data itself shows: wealthier people are spending less and lower income workers are spending more.

@prince wrote:

The wealthier people could be having theirs delivered. They may be spending as much as ever, just differently.

That's true.

It's a good point that we can't just rely on brick-and-mortar occupancy in these neighborhoods. I'll have to keep that in mind. The thing that still confirms this thesis, however, is the economic data we have. Spending by the wealthy has definitely decreased since the pandemic, while spending by the lower-income brackets has actually stayed the same or even gone up in many cases. It's because the wealthy care about the virus threat and have not been going out as much (and can afford not to work, work remotely, and/or have deliveries sent to them), whereas those in the lower brackets often have to work outside the home. They are naturally out and about, but also have an infusion of more cash.

This is the one recession that is an anomaly, in which people's income on average has gone up in America, due to CARES stimulus. Big question: Will we get more stimulus? If not, we could see some tough times and a more traditional recession play out here in the U.S., where you have deflation, bankruptcies/insolvencies, and mass and permanent layoffs (even more than now).