I'm ultra curious as to what reopening looks like across the U.S. Are people lining up to go to restaurants? Are coffee shops filled? Are people going to hair and nail salons? What about doctor's offices? And, are shopping centers buzzing?

Beyond just the population density, I'm curious if people are continuing to respectfully social distance once at a business and wear masks.

I am in coastal Virginia and haven't traveled much except to pick up food, get groceries, get gas, desposit/withdraw from the bank, and exercise at our public elementary and middle middle schools since March.

I drove out today to pick up food from a church member. Gas stations and grocery stores seemed to be back to decent levels of business. I saw two women talking without masks and close to each other at a gas station. Probably friends. Traffic, in general, seemed 25-35% lighter than usual for a weekend.

LOL They are looting and burning CA on the first weekend of re-opening. Nothing to buy now. It's all been stolen.

Major summer events have been cancelled, and this will likely limit the number of people coming to and through my state. Huzzah! I do feel for people and businesses who will lose some or all of their anticipated revenue for that time frame. I used to work the tourist seasons, and I know how important that is for workers at many levels and in many places. But I am pleased that the reduced numbers this year makes our state generally similar to individual locations that limit the number of people on premises at any given time. This will make it easier to practice social distancing on a larger scale than at, say, Wally World. People can come back next year or the year after that. I hope that the dratted disease will not be an issue for future tourist seasons around the world!

We went for several drives into the countryside this week... Aaaaaahhhhhhh...... lovely! Few people were hanging out, and we had an entire bit of wilderness to ourselves for awhile. This should be the new normal, imho. There were birds, critters, and... two mere humans. They outnumbered us, and they sang better.

@SoCalMama wrote:

LOL They are looting and burning CA on the first weekend of re-opening. Nothing to buy now. It's all been stolen.

It angers me greatly that young protesters, who likely won't have severe complications from COVID, have gotten together in such chaotic ways that will likely spread this virus more than necessary after the nationwide events.

I support their cause (sick and tired of seeing police treat people with callous indifference and negligence that leads to unnecessary deaths), but doing this in the middle of a medical pandemic is wrong. I have lots of elderly family members in New York and California in which these massive crowds have gathered. When they go back to their communities and/or work, they could easily be spreading COVID-19 the caught from the protests to their families, neighbors, fellow workers, and customers.

Under normal circumstances, protests are an American right. In a medical pandemic like this, I believe they should be illegal.

@Shop-et-al wrote:

Major summer events have been cancelled, and this will likely limit the number of people coming to and through my state. Huzzah! I do feel for people and businesses who will lose some or all of their anticipated revenue for that time frame. I used to work the tourist seasons, and I know how important that is for workers at many levels and in many places. But I am pleased that the reduced numbers this year makes our state generally similar to individual locations that limit the number of people on premises at any given time. This will make it easier to practice social distancing on a larger scale than at, say, Wally World. People can come back next year or the year after that. I hope that the dratted disease will not be an issue for future tourist seasons around the world!

We went for several drives into the countryside this week... Aaaaaahhhhhhh...... lovely! Few people were hanging out, and we had an entire bit of wilderness to ourselves for awhile. This should be the new normal, imho. There were birds, critters, and... two mere humans. They outnumbered us, and they sang better.

I wish I lived in the countryside and isolated away from others during times like this. The timing of the protests + Phase 1 reopenings in many states across America is horrible. Just when people are starting to emerge from lockdown, you have super spreader events like the protests.

It's all very horrible - what happened to George Floyd and now mass chaos (with tightly gathered, mass crowds of people).

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2020 05:40AM by shoptastic.

@shoptastic wrote:

Under normal circumstances, protests are an American right. In a medical pandemic like this, I believe they should be illegal.

If our officers and their continuous Abuse of Power isn’t illegal during a medical pandemic, neither should our Right to Protest.

I do not dispute that people have rights. Rights extend to the sweet spot where responsibilities begin. I dislike the initiating event, and I equally dislike the subsequent vicious destruction. I like rights, and I equally like self control. How does incited, wanton, and willful destruction honor the life and death of George Floyd? It only shows pots and kettles. This is not helpful or thoughtful. Each and every protestor should have the same charges against them in the same style that they want the rest of us to support regarding all four officers. If they want all four officers charged, then they all should be charged with being perpetrators or accessories to looting, burning, and other devastation and destruction. This would be fair. When will people learn?!

RIP, George Floyd. There is little peace on the planet now. You dodged a bullet.

What squicks me most is not knowing whether George Floyd was expressing a medical concern. He had high blood pressure and might have been struggling with breath because of that. He should have been left alone with officers at the ready for anything that could happen next medically or otherwise, Instead, he was pressured-- literally and figuratively-- by someone's haughty ego which apparently did not consider medical factors.. Were there intoxicants? Was there anxiety? Was there panic? What the unprintable really happened? And.... why have so many people been affected adversely by destruction that spans days and purports to avenge an event that still has not been fully explained or understood? There is no excuse for unhinged protests. It should be enough to march, write, post, and talk about things.

Gah.

Signed,
Not much of a protestor; more of a cyber-ranter from a distance.

P.S. Are any of them in violation of any remaining social distancing, masking, curfew, or other mandates?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2020 07:01AM by Shop-et-al.

@Tarantado wrote:

@shoptastic wrote:

Under normal circumstances, protests are an American right. In a medical pandemic like this, I believe they should be illegal.

If our officers and their continuous Abuse of Power isn’t illegal during a medical pandemic, neither should our Right to Protest.

It is illegal, that's why the officer has been arrested and charged. That's not to say I don't understand the frustration Americans have with police brutality.

I have supported BLM and other protesting - even when I have disagreed with the specific causes behind them at times (some cases I thought the police were not guilty and others I felt they were) - but I do not support it during a medical pandemic in which over 100,000 Americans have died and the protests violate many states' crowd gathering bans aimed at reducing public health risks.

You have the right to protest. You should not have that right when it endangers others' lives. This includes blocking freeways (some people are trying to get to a doctor!), engaging in violence, or fostering the spread of a dangerous virus.

@Shop-et-al wrote:

I do not dispute that people have rights. Rights extend to the sweet spot where responsibilities begin. I dislike the initiating event, and I equally dislike the subsequent vicious destruction. I like rights, and I equally like self control. How does incited, wanton, and willful destruction honor the life and death of George Floyd? It only shows pots and kettles. This is not helpful or thoughtful. Each and every protestor should have the same charges against them in the same style that they want the rest of us to support regarding all four officers. If they want all four officers charged, then they all should be charged with being perpetrators or accessories of looting, burning, and other devastation and destruction. This would be fair. When will people learn?!

Probably most protesters were peaceful and mask wearing - even if they were not social distancing.

The very nature of these gatherings makes social distancing practically impossible. Some protesters were not wearing masks in video/pictures I've seen. Many were chanting/shouting slogans. The close proximity of so many people combined with lots of yelling makes for a virus spreading nightmare.

As for the looters, property destroyers, and violent protesters, yes, they should be arrested and punished. However, this, too, is a virus spreading nightmare. Having to get up close and handcuff someone, verify their identification, jam them into a police car and put them in a crowded jail overnight easily leads to virus transmission. I'm sure the masks have to come off in jail processing, etc.

Destruction of businesses that are already struggling - many of which could be minority owned and/or employ minorities - isn't helpful either in the middle of an economic recession/depression. This is all very horrible. We have multiple crises at once:

-police brutality and racism
-COVID-19
-economic recession/depression

The timing is absolutely, absolutely horrible. It's already hard to deal with one or two things...this added chaos and likely deepening of the virus toll and economic pain is making things worse. This was not the way to get across a message of social/racial/law enforcement justice.

Two ..three ...four wrongs don't make a right. I feel for all sides. There should have been a better way.

The right to protest has been misused and abused. I would not like to have any rights abridged. Rather, I would like changes in activism training and activist behavior which reflect understanding of this one principle: sometimes, you can stop fighting and live to fight another day. In this situation, there is no need to push and push and push until innocent people are harmed. There is no reed to commandeer highways, buildings, and steal other people's opportunities. Rather, there is time to think, to grieve, to learn something different, and to put our new understanding into practice. In a calmer world, this would eventually make its way into a reasoned process of changing certain law enforcement behaviors. No one can change those practices and achieve an improvement if they are too frenzied to consider the various pros and cons of proposed change. Inciters don't want us to think. They just want us to carry out their destructive activism. I choose to remember that I have the right to do things in better ways than that.

@shoptastic wrote:

You have the right to protest. You should not have that right when it endangers others' lives. This includes blocking freeways (some people are trying to get to a doctor!), engaging in violence, or fostering the spread of a dangerous virus.

My city and surrounding ones had mostly peaceful protests, so I am proud of that. Some didn't wear masks, which I disliked, but I'm glad we never saw violence and business destruction/looting.

We will likely be able to reopen more smoothly, but I still worry about the virus transmission from these events just as we're opening back up. It feels like it could undo so much "work" and sacrifice of the past two months of lockdown.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2020 07:26AM by shoptastic.

@Shop-et-al wrote:

What squicks me most is not knowing whether George Floyd was expressing a medical concern.

Frankly, shopetal, I thought he was expressing what it would feel like if you had a knee pressed on your neck for almost 10 minutes. I think it was eight minutes or so total.

He didn't need to have a condition to die. Just the weight of someone doing that seems enough to make it hard for you to breathe. George was not resisting at that point (if he ever did at all) and the officer could hear him saying he couldn't breathe. Medical condition or not, he should have eased up the pressure and/or removed the knee altogether. It's negligent disregard for George Floyd and essentially murder in my mind. He deserves prison and I am glad it was caught on camera. One can only imagine what stories may have been spun without that video. It's also hard to watch, because of how innocent George was and pleading just to be able to breathe. It's sickening and I feel what others did seeing it.

@Shop-et-al wrote:

In a calmer world . . .

I just think of all times to do this stuff, now was not the right one. Sometimes in life, you have to recognize an even greater harm.

New York especially. Over 20,000 COVID-19 deaths.

At any other time, I would have totally understood. But with the virus and an economic collapse, the mass gatherings that likely made both worse don't help to spread a message aimed at loving thy neighbor and protecting others' rights and well-being. This time, I fear protests have caused more harm than good.

@shoptastic wrote:

It is illegal, that's why the officer has been arrested and charged. That's not to say I don't understand the frustration Americans have with police brutality.

I have supported BLM and other protesting - even when I have disagreed with the specific causes behind them at times (some cases I thought the police were not guilty and others I felt they were) - but I do not support it during a medical pandemic in which over 100,000 Americans have died and the protests violate many states' crowd gathering bans aimed at reducing public health risks.

You have the right to protest. You should not have that right when it endangers others' lives. This includes blocking freeways (some people are trying to get to a doctor!), engaging in violence, or fostering the spread of a dangerous virus.

And yet the 3 other officers have yet to be charged. Also, do you genuinely believe the officer currently arrested would’ve turned out this way without push from the public?

Regardless, why do we have to live with knowing that police corruption continues to happen without ANY signs of reform or change? I was too young to remember the Rodney King riots back in 92. How is it that after even just that, little to no progression has been made to address proper punishment for police brutality and ANY abuse of their power.

The issue is much deeper than JUST the George Floyd incident, as this happened to be yet another example of police brutality that was recorded and gone viral.

It’s frustrating. Even though I’m not Black, I happened to experience form of abuse from police as well, granted I was fortunate to not have been physically beaten. Got pulled over on my drive to Omaha in the middle of Sterling Colorado with my Black and Korean brother in law. I was pulled over simply because, according to the officer, driving in the fast lane when I should’ve have been. This was around 2 AM on the empty I-76... I was then asked to step out of the car suddenly, asked to walk about 20 feet away from my car, while the officers interrogated us trying to see how we were related. AND THEN, they essentially pushed us to search our car, illegally; no probable cause. In the end, I agreed because the last thing I want is to be F’d over as we were in a deadzone as well with our phones. Worst experience of my life and in the end, the officers wasted nearly an hour and a half of our time just because they wanted to abuse their privilege. And I do genuinely believe me and my brother in law were wrongly profiled. I’m a Filipino and at the same, had a beard thick enough that I could pass off as some sort of Hispanic.

I came out fine, but imagine the countless abuse from our civil servants that seem to NOT receive proper punishment equals to the law that they’re enforcing in this damn country.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2020 08:23AM by Tarantado.

@Shop-et-al wrote:

The right to protest has been misused and abused. I would not like to have any rights abridged. Rather, I would like changes in activism training and activist behavior which reflect understanding of this one principle: sometimes, you can stop fighting and live to fight another day. In this situation, there is no need to push and push and push until innocent people are harmed. There is no reed to commandeer highways, buildings, and steal other people's opportunities. Rather, there is time to think, to grieve, to learn something different, and to put our new understanding into practice. In a calmer world, this would eventually make its way into a reasoned process of changing certain law enforcement behaviors. No one can change those practices and achieve an improvement if they are too frenzied to consider the various pros and cons of proposed change. Inciters don't want us to think. They just want us to carry out their destructive activism. I choose to remember that I have the right to do things in better ways than that.
]

Forgive me of my ignorance, but what change or reform has occurred since the Rodney King incident? I am too young to remember that. I’m referring to specifically that because this was when I was a young toddler. If police brutality was just as bad back then, why does it feel like things haven’t changed much in 2020? Our officers have a special privilege and power as officers. When they do something wrong, they have the best representation, likely get favored by the judicial system even if they were in the wrong, etc. simply because they’re a police officer. In other words, the law STILL doesn’t apply to them equally compared to a normal citizen and even worse, a normal citizen with Afrocentric features.

I think Rona 2.0, previously scheduled for later this year, will arrive earlier than expected. Most protesters are masked but simple masks are only helpful regarding disease. They are not a guaranteed protection. Some are worn incorrectly. Some are inefficient. Some have been reused and turned inside out. The 6' rule has been abandoned at these gatherings, with people all mushed together, yelling, huffing and puffing. There's a whole lot of breathing going on and germs are being passed.

And why was that cop's hand in his pocket? FOR SO LONG? What was going on in there? That was just too strange. Maybe if he had used his hands he would not have needed the knee-in-the-neck method?

Violence has not improved conditions. It often places violent protestors and opportunistic criminals........... ......................................................................................................................................................................
wait for it .....................................................................................................................................................
....... in the custody of and at the mercy of the very same cops whose behavior they would like to change.

This does not serve anyone well.

Meanwhile, I would like to know exactly who is training law enforcement personnel, what methods and materials they are using, and if any of it involves entrainment, brainwashing, suggestopedia, or other similar learning techniques. There is some murky reason that throughout history, certain persons are approached, harmed, and killed more often than others. Apparently, someone believes this is okay. Whence this belief? Who, exactly, believes this? The key is to find out why this belief and behavior continue century after century after century. Violence will not help with that. I am not clever enough to find out all the missing answers, but someone will find a way to do that and help us all to get out of this unhelpful rut and back on a track to civility, respect, etc.

@Tarantado wrote:

@Shop-et-al wrote:

The right to protest has been misused and abused. I would not like to have any rights abridged. Rather, I would like changes in activism training and activist behavior which reflect understanding of this one principle: sometimes, you can stop fighting and live to fight another day. In this situation, there is no need to push and push and push until innocent people are harmed. There is no reed to commandeer highways, buildings, and steal other people's opportunities. Rather, there is time to think, to grieve, to learn something different, and to put our new understanding into practice. In a calmer world, this would eventually make its way into a reasoned process of changing certain law enforcement behaviors. No one can change those practices and achieve an improvement if they are too frenzied to consider the various pros and cons of proposed change. Inciters don't want us to think. They just want us to carry out their destructive activism. I choose to remember that I have the right to do things in better ways than that.
]

Forgive me of my ignorance, but what change or reform has occurred since the Rodney King incident? I am too young to remember that. I’m referring to specifically that because this was when I was a young toddler. If police brutality was just as bad back then, why does it feel like things haven’t changed much in 2020? Our officers have a special privilege and power as officers. When they do something wrong, they have the best representation, likely get favored by the judicial system even if they were in the wrong, etc. simply because they’re a police officer. In other words, the law STILL doesn’t apply to them equally compared to a normal citizen and even worse, a normal citizen with Afrocentric features.

The news said the president was skirted away to an underground bunker. My translation: He was hiding in the basement! It's not funny but I crack myself up.

@Tarantado wrote:

And yet the 3 other officers have yet to be charged. Also, do you genuinely believe the officer currently arrested would’ve turned out this way without push from the public?

I don't have an opinion on the guilt of the other three, as I did not pay attention to them as much when viewing the horrific video, Tarantado. I'd honestly not want to view it again - at least, not at the moment. Perhaps I will at a future date. I think if the three clearly saw what Chauvin was doing, heard Floyd's cries for help to breathe, and saw Chauvin continuing to not let up/remove his knee, then I'd think they were guilty as well. It's a bit harder for me to assign guilt to them, because I'm not sure of how much they knew and understood, as they were distracted with controlling the crowd much of the time if my memory is correct. I can imagine it being hard to deal with the onlookers, while having the clarity of mind to also keep an eye on their fellow officer, Chauvin, and what was happening to Floyd. I could see them trusting Chauvin to manage the situation just as Chauvin may have trusted the other three to manage the crowd. I don't want to get too carried away into something I haven't examined enough, but those were just my initial thoughts. I'm much less clear on the guilt of the other three.

I do think there would have been a review of Chauvin's actions given the video evidence we have. I cannot say whether or not he would have been arrested and charged upon that review, although I'd like to think he would have been. I'm aware of the thin blue line, police racism (implicit biases or explicit), and cases where officers doing wrong have gotten off. However, if after allowing for proper review of the video evidence and there was not an arrest and charge, I would have been fine with public outcry over the non-arrest/charge. Of course we don't want public outcry to influence a district attorney either. Whether to bring charges should solely be based on law and review of the evidence to support a charge - not public pressure. We need to give the police and DA time to investigate and act.

I'm not sure if the protests started before the police and DA were given reasonable time to act or not. But, at some point, Chauvin was arrested and charged and the protests raged on.

I understand the anger over George Floyd's needless death. I understand public outcry. But, that outcry does not have to take the form of mass gatherings during this time of COVID-19. What is not right is to protest in a way that endangers others' lives and well-being. Would you agree with that principle?

If you do, then you'll see that mass gathering to protest during COVID-19 is wrong. There could have been other ways to get one's point across that did not endanger lives (on top of the destruction and looting that took place).

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2020 01:42PM by shoptastic.

In this list from Chase's, there are several concepts to celebrate this month that can steer us back to respect and fun. These would honor George Floyd as long as people do them respectfully and safely. (Among others, this is re-build your life and safety month.) No one has to get hurt! No one has to lose their property! So. I will have Soul Food Day, spend time outdoors while using my ever-present sunscreen, listen to Motown, Paul Robson, Jan & Dean and others, and pencil in a trip to the zoo for each of the next three years. Surely, it will be safe to go to the zoo then! Meanwhile, I will look for pollinator plants and add them to my porch...

Today is Chile Day. I s'pose I could listen to Arrau and read Neruda.



June
Adopt-A-Shelter-Cat Month
African-American Music Appreciation Month
Aphasia Awareness Month, Natl
Audiobook Appreciation Month
Bathroom Reading Month, Natl
Cancer from the Sun Month
Candy Month, Natl
Caribbean-American Heritage Month, Natl
Cataract Awareness Month
Child Vision Awareness Month
Dementia Care Professionals Month
Effective Communications Month
Entrepreneurs “Do It Yourself” Marketing Month
GLBT Book Month, Natl
Great Outdoors Month
Iced Tea Month, Natl
June Dairy Month
Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Pride Month
Men’s Health Education and Awareness Month
Men’s Month, Intl
Migraine and Headache Awareness Month
Oceans Month, Natl
Perennial Gardening Month
Pharmacists Declare War on Alcoholism
Pollinator Month, Natl
PTSD Awareness Month
Rebuild Your Life Month
Rivers Month, Natl
Rose Month, Natl
Safety Month, Natl
Skyscraper Month
Soul Food Month, Natl
Student Safety Month
Surf Music Month, Intl
Zoo and Aquarium Month, Natl

June–July
Fireworks Safety Months (June 1–July 31)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2020 02:49PM by Shop-et-al.

Sadly, I spoke too soon. My community did have property damage and thrashing INNOCENT people's stores! These are people who have NOTHING to do with Floyd's death and these actions don't promote love, nor justice.

Not that I support it, but could maybeeeeee understand thrashing city property where the killing of Floyd took place. But to do it across the U.S. in a community with nothing to do with the killing and destroy small business owners' property when they're barely struggling to get by with COVID-19 (1/3 of small businesses may have to close down), it's flat stupid! These people were JUST reopening here in Virginia. The had NOTHING to do with the killing, which is a tragedy.

This is what I mean by two..three....more wrongs don't make a right. I hope we don't get more of this tonight or later in the week. Spreading COVID, causing virus deaths, and thrashing INNOCENT people's struggling businesses is totally evili!

Tomorrow, we are dining in at a new-to us restaurant. We will have soul food (or close to it) and iced tea. The restaurant is well prepared and has posted a well-written summary of recent changes to the customer experience at their place. Nice!

How can we express sorrow and anger over George Floyd's death in a way that holds the wrongdoers accountable, seeks long-term change, and does not involve endangering others (via COVID-19 spread, violence, and property damage)?

USA Today has a list of things we can do to join the cause of George Floyd that do not involve going out during this time:
[www.usatoday.com]

Well, y’all have a lot of time for typing it seems?

At least in CA, the protesters are not rioting, and the rioters are not protesting.

They are two completely different groups of people.

@SoCalMama wrote:

At least in CA, the protesters are not rioting, and the rioters are not protesting.

They are two completely different groups of people.

Yes, most protesters have been peaceful from what I've seen.

A small group seems to be doing the fire bombing, property damage, and looting. I have even heard stories that some were paid to do this to make the protest groups look bad.

@sestrahelena wrote:

I think Rona 2.0, previously scheduled for later this year, will arrive earlier than expected. Most protesters are masked but simple masks are only helpful regarding disease. They are not a guaranteed protection. Some are worn incorrectly. Some are inefficient. Some have been reused and turned inside out. The 6' rule has been abandoned at these gatherings, with people all mushed together, yelling, huffing and puffing. There's a whole lot of breathing going on and germs are being passed.

I've followed the meat packing plant infections and the spacing at these rallies is worse than the spacing of meat plant workers. Even when the workers had masks on, they all got infected. Many have been scared to go back to work.

However, there was some debate as to how it spread. The plant management in some cases argued it was brought into the plants from the workers' homes and apartments where they said the original infections were possibly occurring. Many of the workers live together in tight spaces in their homes/apartments. No one knows for sure. I only have seen pictures of their working lines and there is more spacing between workers than there are between protesters.

On the positive side, the rallies have been outdoors and that gives more opportunity for the air to carry the virus away and dilute its particles. But, on the bad side, there are often confrontations that are up close and no safety precautions are taken re: COVID (that the meat plant workers obviously are trying to take).

Even if these young protesters spread and get COVID, I think many would be asymptomatic and may not get tested. So that could lead to asymptomatic spread when they go back to their homes and neighborhoods. We'll know in three weeks or so if we get a big spike in cases and hospitalizations. *shrug*

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/02/2020 11:19AM by shoptastic.

So we are staying here and going to the restaurant... whenever. I just had to finish the final season of Seachange yesterday, which pushed everything else into today. But the good news is.... I can go to a store that recently re-opened. During the shutdown, they remodeled. I wonder what they are doing now. Same stuff, different place? Different stuff, same place? ?

@SoCalMama wrote:

Well, y’all have a lot of time for typing it seems?

At least in CA, the protesters are not rioting, and the rioters are not protesting.

They are two completely different groups of people.

Our officers are also two completely different groups: those that abuse their power and privilege, and those that do their job right and legally, ethically and morally abide by the law they’re trying to enforce.

"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."
-Martin Luther King, Jr.

@shoptastic wrote:

"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."
-Martin Luther King, Jr.

And MLK still got murdered, despite staying true to his word with his light and trying to maintain peace.

Think it's a looooooooooong game. Eventually, this unprintable will be overcome. For now, we can sing affirmatively, "We shall overcome"...

THIS:

@SoCalMama wrote:

Well, y’all have a lot of time for typing it seems?

At least in CA, the protesters are not rioting, and the rioters are not protesting.

They are two completely different groups of people.

In the Seattle area, a group of known gang members (as identified by police) were going from real protest to real protest and using it as "cover" to loot.