Job hunting
Warning: For Full Access Please Log In or Create an Account (Free)
For years my rant has been comments such as "be happy you have a job." How about the company "be happy to have a qualified, dedicated employee." These things are cyclical. I remember hearing the first back in the 80's and then in the 90's company attitudes leaned toward the latter again. Unfortunately the cycle we are in now has been lasting much too long and will likely last longer. The current climate is supporting corporations and the wealthy at the expense of the average person more than I have ever seen in my life. As people are waking up it will pass.
Equal rights for others does not mean fewer rights for you. It's not pie.
"I prefer someone who burns the flag and then wraps themselves up in the Constitution over someone who burns the Constitution and then wraps themselves up in the flag." -Molly Ivins
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of your time and it really annoys the pig.
"I prefer someone who burns the flag and then wraps themselves up in the Constitution over someone who burns the Constitution and then wraps themselves up in the flag." -Molly Ivins
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of your time and it really annoys the pig.
"Why are you leaving" (or more often "Why did you leave"
is a standard interview question. I wouldn't necessarily ask it FIRST but as an interviewer I certainly want to know why, for two and a half reasons:
1. I want to know what your answer will be vs. what a reference check answer will be.
2. If the reason is in any way negative I want to get a feel for how you dealt/how you are dealing with it, i.e. turning the negative into a positive.
2a. If the reason is negative I want to hear how you bad mouth your company or your boss. If you do, you most likely will not be hired (free Protip)
You're not necessarily lucky to have THAT job (you are probably GOOD), but in this economy you're somewhat luckier than in past economies to be working. As long as you stick it out in your job and transition smoothly into a better one you're doing it right.
is a standard interview question. I wouldn't necessarily ask it FIRST but as an interviewer I certainly want to know why, for two and a half reasons:
1. I want to know what your answer will be vs. what a reference check answer will be.
2. If the reason is in any way negative I want to get a feel for how you dealt/how you are dealing with it, i.e. turning the negative into a positive.
2a. If the reason is negative I want to hear how you bad mouth your company or your boss. If you do, you most likely will not be hired (free Protip)
You're not necessarily lucky to have THAT job (you are probably GOOD), but in this economy you're somewhat luckier than in past economies to be working. As long as you stick it out in your job and transition smoothly into a better one you're doing it right.
Thanks raisitup. I know it's standard, and I've followed the "rules" never said a negative thing, seeking a new challenge blah blah blah. Although I am ususally painfully honest, and the above is def. a truth, I would never say "I work in Hell's Main Office" even if that is also true LOL.
I did kinda pick on just one part of that post
Actually that question can give you a great opportunity. raisitup is right about the reasons the question gets asked. You can bring up the positives of your current company and how you have enjoyed working there, etc. You then move on to a version of what you said here, you are ready to advance in your career.
Edited to add: Apparently you were responding as I was writing so now my point is moot
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2011 07:38PM by LisaSTL.
Actually that question can give you a great opportunity. raisitup is right about the reasons the question gets asked. You can bring up the positives of your current company and how you have enjoyed working there, etc. You then move on to a version of what you said here, you are ready to advance in your career.
Edited to add: Apparently you were responding as I was writing so now my point is moot
Equal rights for others does not mean fewer rights for you. It's not pie.
"I prefer someone who burns the flag and then wraps themselves up in the Constitution over someone who burns the Constitution and then wraps themselves up in the flag." -Molly Ivins
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of your time and it really annoys the pig.
"I prefer someone who burns the flag and then wraps themselves up in the Constitution over someone who burns the Constitution and then wraps themselves up in the flag." -Molly Ivins
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of your time and it really annoys the pig.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2011 07:38PM by LisaSTL.
It's fine, they can ask all they want. I don't think I should be judged by the fact I have a job. I've read tons of articles about the employed having a better chance at getting a new job, but I don't think that's completely true. A person with the same exact resume as myself can go in and take a couple grand a year decrease in pay. I can't. Does that person really want to work there or are they just trying to get a job? I think these HR people are looking at things differently than they should be.
You probably just hit the nail on the head. People don't usually leave a job for a pay decrease while someone who has been unemployed for over a year could be more than willing to work for thousands less than they had before. A friend of mine lost a relatively high-paying job and was in no position to be picky. She was able to find a job within 6 weeks, but had to take $10,000 a year less.
Equal rights for others does not mean fewer rights for you. It's not pie.
"I prefer someone who burns the flag and then wraps themselves up in the Constitution over someone who burns the Constitution and then wraps themselves up in the flag." -Molly Ivins
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of your time and it really annoys the pig.
"I prefer someone who burns the flag and then wraps themselves up in the Constitution over someone who burns the Constitution and then wraps themselves up in the flag." -Molly Ivins
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of your time and it really annoys the pig.
That is a normal question after being with a company for years. I might suggest saying, there is no growth, and you would like a company to grow with, you seem to be at a standstill, and decided it time to see what is available. This is a rough time to be job hunting, especially in CA. They should ask those questions, and you should have a viable answer. The best to you Krissy, I hope you find what you want, it's a drag to work at a profession you don't like, or be in a marriage your not happy in.....I'm all for exploring to see what better is out there.
Live consciously....
Thanks everyone, here's another question for you.
The last interview I went on, I was asked if my company would try and couter-offer to keep me. I said No, because I know they aren't willing to pay (or anyone) pennies more to keep us around. And I followed that up by saying that it wouldn't matter because this isn't where I want to be.
A friend of mine thinks by saying no, it shows I'm not a valuable employee.
I guess it could go either way, but really, what's the answer to that?
The last interview I went on, I was asked if my company would try and couter-offer to keep me. I said No, because I know they aren't willing to pay (or anyone) pennies more to keep us around. And I followed that up by saying that it wouldn't matter because this isn't where I want to be.
A friend of mine thinks by saying no, it shows I'm not a valuable employee.
I guess it could go either way, but really, what's the answer to that?
My kids are both pretty much burned out and burned up with their current jobs. One of them was caught up in a massive layoff and spent close to a year and a half unemployed and is now seriously 'underemployed'. The other has watched across the board pay cut after pay cut (to say nothing of benefits) and his staff has been reduced from 5 to 1 1/2 with him picking up most of the slack. While they are both looking for other/better opportunities, they both are acutely aware that bailing on their current work for a new job where there are layoffs in less than 90 days or some other reason for that new job to end would leave them up the proverbial creek without a paddle as there would be no help from Unemployment.
So while I hear your unhappiness for both the short and long term, be really sure about both the fiscal condition and the work conditions before bailing.
We are definitely in a climate where the "Why are you leaving?" question will be king. As for rejection letters . . . my son has both a BA and an MS and took a job that required a high school diploma in order to have a job. He found out that he was edged out for a job requiring a BA in his field by a guy with a PhD and 16 years of experience, so realize that folks who are overqualified for jobs are taking whatever they can get and many of the job announcements out there are not actually funded positions but rather fishing expeditions to see what overqualifications may be swimming by in the unemployment pool. If a set of qualifications a company really wants nibbles at a job for half the pay those qualifications would 'normally' command, they may find room in the budget for a new hire.
It is a tough market and I understand your frustration.
So while I hear your unhappiness for both the short and long term, be really sure about both the fiscal condition and the work conditions before bailing.
We are definitely in a climate where the "Why are you leaving?" question will be king. As for rejection letters . . . my son has both a BA and an MS and took a job that required a high school diploma in order to have a job. He found out that he was edged out for a job requiring a BA in his field by a guy with a PhD and 16 years of experience, so realize that folks who are overqualified for jobs are taking whatever they can get and many of the job announcements out there are not actually funded positions but rather fishing expeditions to see what overqualifications may be swimming by in the unemployment pool. If a set of qualifications a company really wants nibbles at a job for half the pay those qualifications would 'normally' command, they may find room in the budget for a new hire.
It is a tough market and I understand your frustration.
And in response to your next question, I think I would be comfortable that I felt no counter-offer would be forthcoming because I sensed they would be happy for a voluntary reduction in staff due to the economy.
Krissyg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks everyone, here's another question for you.
>
>
> The last interview I went on, I was asked if my
> company would try and couter-offer to keep me. I
> said No, because I know they aren't willing to pay
> (or anyone) pennies more to keep us around. And I
> followed that up by saying that it wouldn't matter
> because this isn't where I want to be.
>
> A friend of mine thinks by saying no, it shows I'm
> not a valuable employee.
>
> I guess it could go either way, but really, what's
> the answer to that?
Not really a fair question, but if you say so you look uncooperative and evasive.... and there isn't necessarily a right answer.... it's kind of a "When did you stop beating your wife?" question .....I would answer but not answer ... I would make direct eye contact and smile in a confident and professional way and say "My current employer values me because of the excellent job I do, but I'm interested in working HERE because personal growth and the opportunity to take on new challenges is my primary focus right now." Then I would ask a question about the job duties or growth potential of a specific part of the job that really caught my attention. If the interviewer came back and asked again "But, do you think they would offer you more?" I would again make direct eye contact, smile, and say, in a very pleasant and neutral tone "Oh, I know the company values me, but I really have no idea what the reaction would be should I find a more challenging position."
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks everyone, here's another question for you.
>
>
> The last interview I went on, I was asked if my
> company would try and couter-offer to keep me. I
> said No, because I know they aren't willing to pay
> (or anyone) pennies more to keep us around. And I
> followed that up by saying that it wouldn't matter
> because this isn't where I want to be.
>
> A friend of mine thinks by saying no, it shows I'm
> not a valuable employee.
>
> I guess it could go either way, but really, what's
> the answer to that?
Not really a fair question, but if you say so you look uncooperative and evasive.... and there isn't necessarily a right answer.... it's kind of a "When did you stop beating your wife?" question .....I would answer but not answer ... I would make direct eye contact and smile in a confident and professional way and say "My current employer values me because of the excellent job I do, but I'm interested in working HERE because personal growth and the opportunity to take on new challenges is my primary focus right now." Then I would ask a question about the job duties or growth potential of a specific part of the job that really caught my attention. If the interviewer came back and asked again "But, do you think they would offer you more?" I would again make direct eye contact, smile, and say, in a very pleasant and neutral tone "Oh, I know the company values me, but I really have no idea what the reaction would be should I find a more challenging position."
Flash speaks well of the fear that I have... I have an incedibly stable job, good benefits: 2 bonuses a year, dollar for dollar company match for 401k... Problem is the pay isnt that great...~$10 .an hour but its something I can do for a long time
I have seen jobs that pay more but are not as stable and that is huge...what I am doing now is looking for a steady easy part time job...something that can be supplemental and doesnt have as much stress as subbing...
My grandma says the best time to find a job is when you already have one
I have seen jobs that pay more but are not as stable and that is huge...what I am doing now is looking for a steady easy part time job...something that can be supplemental and doesnt have as much stress as subbing...
My grandma says the best time to find a job is when you already have one
shopping north west PA and south west ny
cooldude581 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> My grandma says the best time to find a job is
> when you already have one
This was the exact advice given to my husband during his unemployment stretch. He had quit due to an intolerable work environment and then was either non- or underemployed for several years. Numerous people told him the same thing, that it is easier to find a new job while you're employed than it is if you're not. He was told, "Never quit a job, no matter how intolerable, until you have a new position." Thankfully, he got a very good job about 10 months ago and he's hanging onto it for dear life!
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> My grandma says the best time to find a job is
> when you already have one
This was the exact advice given to my husband during his unemployment stretch. He had quit due to an intolerable work environment and then was either non- or underemployed for several years. Numerous people told him the same thing, that it is easier to find a new job while you're employed than it is if you're not. He was told, "Never quit a job, no matter how intolerable, until you have a new position." Thankfully, he got a very good job about 10 months ago and he's hanging onto it for dear life!
You might consider going to school (online), many are doing that here in L.A., and are in their 50's. Going into a new field and not just another office job will be difficult, while training for a different option could work. Sometimes the schools place you. I wouldn't quit as Flash mentioned, it is really rough out there, I know smart people laid off that have been looking for 3 and 4 years, needing to refinance there homes to help. Having your husband work gives you leeway, so whatever you do, do it in a cautious manner.
Live consciously....
Ack please not online school!!! They promise you the stars... they are out to make money! They are for profit schools... FOR PROFIT!!! Your education is not their goal... making money is... Please look at all the lawsuits and litigation pending against them...
My brother adam got suckered by university of phonix... They told him they are nationally accredited which they are but most states do not accept national accredation... Especially for education state certification he got burned because he could not finish his final year which is a semester of student teaching... No one in PA would accept him... So he got his " masters" in curriculum development... Which helps him get nothing!! And now hes trying to finish his "certification" in mississippi which is widely know for its education... NOT!!
To top it off he has mild cerebal palsy and with help from ova and education coaches he managed a 2.5 gpa in two local colleges... Now he is magically getting a 3.4 with nothing but a laptop and a wireless card...
My brother adam got suckered by university of phonix... They told him they are nationally accredited which they are but most states do not accept national accredation... Especially for education state certification he got burned because he could not finish his final year which is a semester of student teaching... No one in PA would accept him... So he got his " masters" in curriculum development... Which helps him get nothing!! And now hes trying to finish his "certification" in mississippi which is widely know for its education... NOT!!
To top it off he has mild cerebal palsy and with help from ova and education coaches he managed a 2.5 gpa in two local colleges... Now he is magically getting a 3.4 with nothing but a laptop and a wireless card...
shopping north west PA and south west ny
Now I am sure he is in $100,000 of student loan dept and his last job paid $8.30 an hour... And I am sure will have nothing to show for it...
If you are looking for education look first to community colleges... Then private and public.. And if you have no other option ask around about internships or apprentise jobs... But please leave online schools alone... Please!
Also online job hunts on indeed.com are good and social networking sites geared toward ptofesionals ... Ie linkedin.com are the new wave of the future...
If you are looking for education look first to community colleges... Then private and public.. And if you have no other option ask around about internships or apprentise jobs... But please leave online schools alone... Please!
Also online job hunts on indeed.com are good and social networking sites geared toward ptofesionals ... Ie linkedin.com are the new wave of the future...
shopping north west PA and south west ny
One study on monster found out that out of 150 job postings 18% had language that pointed to the employer not wanting long time jobless folks applying... This is ofcourse a violation of eoe regulation... This is why obama wants tax incentives for hiring long term unemployed because some concider long term employment a nono
Another survey found hr departments and manager believed that people lie on their applications, how many you ask? 46% about one out of two... Think that people include bogus info on their apps...
Does,this mean you should? No but dont sell yourself short
Ex
I graduated at the top of my class, with honors. I recieved numorous awards and recognitions.
I graduated at the top of my class of seven peers. I recieved both the Christian studies award and the Greek studies award.
Both are true,but,the first sells better with a secular company which I got the job and used.
I graduated first out of my class of seven.
Another survey found hr departments and manager believed that people lie on their applications, how many you ask? 46% about one out of two... Think that people include bogus info on their apps...
Does,this mean you should? No but dont sell yourself short
Ex
I graduated at the top of my class, with honors. I recieved numorous awards and recognitions.
I graduated at the top of my class of seven peers. I recieved both the Christian studies award and the Greek studies award.
Both are true,but,the first sells better with a secular company which I got the job and used.
I graduated first out of my class of seven.
shopping north west PA and south west ny
It really depends upon which online schools you're talking about. I worked for a school this past year, helping them look into accreditation. Schools that are accredited through the DETC (Distance Education Training Council) must follow strict guidelines and have proven programs. I'm also aware of bona fide universities that offer online degrees, such as BYU and BYU-Idaho. I wouldn't throw all online education out the window. They are NOT all created equal!
Anyone know of any work from home jobs I could try where I dont have to spent money to get started to do it?
Try using the search function here or Google. Maybe you will find a similar forum for people who work at home.
Mystery shoppers have a home-based business, but in general have to be able to go to stores, apartments, etc., in order to complete assignments. There are some shops which can be completed entirely from home and include telephone and/or internet shops and then there is the occasional job where someone would come to your home to sell a service such as new carpeting or junk removal. To my knowledge there is no company which specializes in jobs like this, but most companies will have a few here and there. That means you will have to apply to many, many companies.
Mystery shoppers have a home-based business, but in general have to be able to go to stores, apartments, etc., in order to complete assignments. There are some shops which can be completed entirely from home and include telephone and/or internet shops and then there is the occasional job where someone would come to your home to sell a service such as new carpeting or junk removal. To my knowledge there is no company which specializes in jobs like this, but most companies will have a few here and there. That means you will have to apply to many, many companies.
Equal rights for others does not mean fewer rights for you. It's not pie.
"I prefer someone who burns the flag and then wraps themselves up in the Constitution over someone who burns the Constitution and then wraps themselves up in the flag." -Molly Ivins
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of your time and it really annoys the pig.
"I prefer someone who burns the flag and then wraps themselves up in the Constitution over someone who burns the Constitution and then wraps themselves up in the flag." -Molly Ivins
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of your time and it really annoys the pig.
I have a good friend close to receiving his business degree from Univ. of Phonix (on-line). This is the way to go for many, and for your brother, I'm sorry, but one example doesn't make every on-line school bad. People that work on line, which my friend does (consulting for the movie industry, after being in it for 20 years) work on-line anyway, so, convience is part of it, and of course, their out to make money. I agree good grades are easier to get online and courses easier to get through, but an accredited degree is just that, and better than none.
Time will tell wheather it's worth it, but he will have his degree and try entering a new field, and I wish him luck. Schools here are over crowded, and many can't get clases they need, beside the cost. Not much alternative in my eyes, unless you have the whereabout to get into a great school, but at 40+, not likely.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2011 03:48PM by Irene_L.A..
Time will tell wheather it's worth it, but he will have his degree and try entering a new field, and I wish him luck. Schools here are over crowded, and many can't get clases they need, beside the cost. Not much alternative in my eyes, unless you have the whereabout to get into a great school, but at 40+, not likely.
Live consciously....
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2011 03:48PM by Irene_L.A..
yes key phrase here "try entering a new field"... keep us posted and perhaps i will eat my words... and for your friends sake i hope i do...
regardless of whether there are good schools out there for online or not... most are atrocious... (i would say close to 90%) and promise you the stars...
if obama gets his way most for profit schools (including U of Phoenix) will lose their access to federal funding through the stafford loan and pell grant program because they seem to target low income people, use unethical sales tactics, and graduate far below the brick and mortar ones... -- this i wholly agree with...
as to being 40+ and not having many options... i can understand... usually by that point in life one is tied to a certain area by way of job, mortgage, or family...
however the ones that do go to back to brick and mortar schools have a better understanding of what they are there to do, why they are there, and the value of having a second chance...some of the best stories i remember from graduations were the adult students...
i would say taking a chance at a community college (which offer flexible scheduling including online courses)is by FAR the better choice...they are tied to the community... you can talk with companies that employs students and get a sense of the quality of education... and you are not tied into $15k in loans for a year, most community schools are much much cheaper...
hense the risk is FAR FAR FAR less...
and who knows nowadays its not about what you have degree wise its more people you know... you will get to know more locals at a local school than at an online one..
regardless of whether there are good schools out there for online or not... most are atrocious... (i would say close to 90%) and promise you the stars...
if obama gets his way most for profit schools (including U of Phoenix) will lose their access to federal funding through the stafford loan and pell grant program because they seem to target low income people, use unethical sales tactics, and graduate far below the brick and mortar ones... -- this i wholly agree with...
as to being 40+ and not having many options... i can understand... usually by that point in life one is tied to a certain area by way of job, mortgage, or family...
however the ones that do go to back to brick and mortar schools have a better understanding of what they are there to do, why they are there, and the value of having a second chance...some of the best stories i remember from graduations were the adult students...
i would say taking a chance at a community college (which offer flexible scheduling including online courses)is by FAR the better choice...they are tied to the community... you can talk with companies that employs students and get a sense of the quality of education... and you are not tied into $15k in loans for a year, most community schools are much much cheaper...
hense the risk is FAR FAR FAR less...
and who knows nowadays its not about what you have degree wise its more people you know... you will get to know more locals at a local school than at an online one..
shopping north west PA and south west ny
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.