I have a dining shop coming up and there are three separate and conflicting sets of instructions for what to order between the job description and guidelines. Yes, I did contact the scheduler (twice) who told me to follow the guidelines. Hard to do when the guidelines have two differing instructions.

I get frustrated when we are expected to lay out cash and also to follow instructions to a t, often accompanied by threatening messages of cancelling shops, invalidating shops or making no exceptions, etc., and yet the instructions are unclear or imprecise.

Along the same lines, I also had to chuckle about a scheduler sending out a huge email this week written as a gigantic paragraph.

Overall, I think I just get frustrated about the sense of hostility I get from some of the schedulers. If I write about clarifying instructions, I am not trying to waste time or be annoying but I'm actually trying to do what is expected of me.

Edited to add - this is a vent

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2024 03:48AM by olympia tennenbaum.

It doesn't sound like it's ACL (feel free not to confirm/deny, they usually have good instructions), but ACL is pretty lenient in making one-off exceptions to accept the report.

I don't know what others would do, but if the scheduler used the term "guidelines" versus "job description", I would go with the guidelines. If the guidelines have two sets of instructions, maybe go with the most applicable one based on your judgment. Send a reply to the scheduler which one you're planning on going with and to provide any applicable clarification. Any clarification requests received from an editor, redirect them to the scheduler's reply and guidelines.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2024 06:21PM by Okie.

Are you able to view the shop report and see if that gives any clarity on it?

@Okie wrote:

It doesn't sound like it's ACL (feel free not to confirm/deny, they usually have good instructions), but ACL is pretty lenient in making one-off exceptions to accept the report.

I don't know what others would do, but if the scheduler used the term "guidelines" versus "job description", I would go with the guidelines. If the guidelines have two sets of instructions, maybe go with the most applicable one based on your judgment. Send a reply to the scheduler which one you're planning on going with and to provide any applicable clarification. Any clarification requests received from an editor, redirect them to the scheduler's reply and guidelines.

It is not ACL. After two clarification questions to the scheduler, they just gave a canned response. I'm not going to bother writing to them again. I did write to another person at the MSC but they did not respond to me.

Part of the issue is imprecise language. Like you and your guest must each order x, y and z. Versus, you must between you and your guest order x, y and z.

I think it will likely be fine but it is a frustrating experience. I wish some people were just more respectful to others. A response like, "Oh, I can see how it would be unclear when there are three different sets of instructions" would be nice rather than an admonition to follow the instructions.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2024 06:34PM by olympia tennenbaum.

@olympia tennenbaum wrote:

Part of the issue is imprecise language. Like you and your guest must each order x, y and z. Versus, you must between you and your guest order x, y and z.

I guess you could write the report in a way without committing to that specific detail. (I hope no one comes after me for trying to suggest something.)

From my experience, the type of correspondence just depends on the scheduler. I try to match their frequency. One or two word replies, I'll try to keep it short and send a screenshot to illustrate my point, if applicable. A detailed reply regardless of how long, I appreciate.

But sometimes me being in need of the information, I'll take the time to be detailed and precise. Yes/no doesn't bother me, as long it directly answers my question. Not answering your question, that can be frustrating.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2024 06:44PM by Okie.

@joanna81 wrote:

Are you able to view the shop report and see if that gives any clarity on it?

I can see it but it doesn't provide any clarity.

Maybe I should take a page from shopperbob's book and reconsider who I want to work for. (He has fired this company, for the record)

It is bad enough when only a fee is involved, but when the job also includes a reimbursement that has the potential to be "down the drain," it would be decision time for me.. The worst, of course, is when there is not even a small fee. I refuse to be aggravated by poor communication. I only recall one situation where that was a problem; it was an MSC with whom I was formerly contracted based in France.

For me, working again, I found that these days it's a required skill to "manage up" and "between departments" to get your work done. Not totally applicable here, but in some ways, it sort of is. If you have any direct reports as a manager/lead, it really is your responsibility to clear roadblocks and eliminate confusion.

just my two cents but "you must each order x, y, z" - I would interpret that as two orders of x, y and z. (if there are two in your party, self included)
if it said between you, I would interpret that as one order of x, y and z....for the whole dining party.
not sure if that helps?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2024 07:36PM by BarefootBliss.

@BarefootBliss wrote:

just my two cents but "you must each order x, y, z" - I would interpret that as two orders of x, y and z. (if there are two in your party, self included)
if it said between you, I would interpret that as one order of x, y and z....for the whole dining party.
not sure if that helps?

That is also how I interpreted them. The instructions say both. That’s the issue. Editing to add that I didn't mean that to be curt!

Reading everything again and again I think they mean you must each order x and between you and your guest order y and z.

The other issue is x is listed as three different things in three different places.

Then there's the issue of the bar where it is not specified what to order. There is a reference to drink(s).

I feel very conscientious of the instructions because some jobs (not this one) will say you may order 1 drink maximum or 2 drinks maximum, or have other instructions like "excessive ordering may result in a reduction of reimbursement or a rejection of the shop" and so on.

I hate when you're made to feel pedantic for wanting to have the instructions clarified.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2024 08:14PM by olympia tennenbaum.

oh three different things in three different places? ugh....that is a major issue.
I would just add that maybe try not to feel pedantic - most of us here have had shops rejected over minutiae....and we are cautious because we know the details matter. It's not you....it's them.

This would be unacceptable to me Your need for clarification is clear to me and the scheduler needs to answer specifically what the requirements are. If it were me, I would reply that I am unable perform this shop as I am uncertain of what the requirements are. Please cancel .Punishment? Banned? So be it

P.S. ACL wants you to write narratives in one paragraph. Strange.

@Madetoshop wrote:

This would be unacceptable to me Your need for clarification is clear to me and the scheduler needs to answer specifically what the requirements are. If it were me, I would reply that I am unable perform this shop as I am uncertain of what the requirements are. Please cancel .Punishment? Banned? So be it

P.S. ACL wants you to write narratives in one paragraph. Strange.

Well, I did it and we'll see how it goes. I'm hoping I did it okay. This scheduler is known for banning so I decided I would give it a try because I like one of their other shops.

Despite being poorly written (in addition to three different ways!) I think I got the gist of what they wanted. We'll see if I'm back here crying in a few days!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2024 02:07PM by olympia tennenbaum.

@olympia tennenbaum wrote:

@joanna81 wrote:

Are you able to view the shop report and see if that gives any clarity on it?

I can see it but it doesn't provide any clarity.

Maybe I should take a page from shopperbob's book and reconsider who I want to work for. (He has fired this company, for the record)

@olympia tennenbaum wrote:

@Madetoshop wrote:

This would be unacceptable to me Your need for clarification is clear to me and the scheduler needs to answer specifically what the requirements are. If it were me, I would reply that I am unable perform this shop as I am uncertain of what the requirements are. Please cancel .Punishment? Banned? So be it

P.S. ACL wants you to write narratives in one paragraph. Strange.

Well, I did it and we'll see how it goes. I'm hoping I did it okay. This scheduler is know for banning so I decided I would give it a try because I like one of their other shops.

Despite being poorly written (in addition to three different ways!) I think I got the gist of what they wanted. We'll see if I'm back here crying in a few days!

I'd be curious to know how it turned out!

@Okie wrote:

@olympia tennenbaum wrote:

@Madetoshop wrote:

This would be unacceptable to me Your need for clarification is clear to me and the scheduler needs to answer specifically what the requirements are. If it were me, I would reply that I am unable perform this shop as I am uncertain of what the requirements are. Please cancel .Punishment? Banned? So be it

P.S. ACL wants you to write narratives in one paragraph. Strange.

Well, I did it and we'll see how it goes. I'm hoping I did it okay. This scheduler is know for banning so I decided I would give it a try because I like one of their other shops.

Despite being poorly written (in addition to three different ways!) I think I got the gist of what they wanted. We'll see if I'm back here crying in a few days!

I'd be curious to know how it turned out!

I'll try to remember to update. The survey is also a little unusual so we'll see if I get any editing/clarifying requests.

Made2shop posts--.....I am unable perform this shop as I am uncertain of what the requirements are. Please cancel .Punishment? Banned? So be it

Bob responds--I could not have stated my reply and position any better. Excluding those for whom money is an issue and must "grin and bear it,", it is imperative that ICs either receive respect from a company or "kick 'em to the curb." My experience is that mistreatment is a continual subscription to misery.

@shopperbob wrote:

Made2shop posts--.....I am unable perform this shop as I am uncertain of what the requirements are. Please cancel .Punishment? Banned? So be it

Bob responds--I could not have stated my reply and position any better. Excluding those for whom money is an issue and must "grin and bear it,", it is imperative that ICs either receive respect from a company or "kick 'em to the curb." My experience is that mistreatment is a continual subscription to misery.

Shopperbob does have excellent logic skills.

I happen to like some of their shops so I guess I’m putting myself in a position to put up or get out. This time I decided to put up with it. The MSC and scheduler do come up regularly on the boards. I decided not to put this in the company side because I didn’t really want to put anyone “on blast” as the kids say.

Eek - edited from computer. I should never post on my phone!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2024 06:30PM by olympia tennenbaum.

@olympia tennenbaum wrote:

I happens to.like some of their shops so I guess I’m putting myself in a position to put up or get out. This time I decided to put up with it. The MSC and scheduler do come up regularly on the boards. I decided not to put this in the company side because I didn’t really want to put anyone “on blast” as the kids say.

I sort of have the same relationship with some MSCs. This may not apply to you, but I did try to re-examine how I was going to do MS going forward. For me, a large part was overcommitment. After making a conscious effort to be very selective and purposeful with which shops to commit to, this has helped me a lot.

Personally, I haven't run into issues with vague and unclear requirements and guidelines. But, I do put up with some other stuff with some MSCs, because in terms of clients, thinking about one MSC in particular, I can already think of more than seven clients, just counting off the top of my head, that would address a large amount of my needs/wants, and I personally enjoy doing the shops. The MSC has a strong presence in my area, and I made an effort to establish good rapport with everyone I interact with. Even if there is one bad apple, for me personally, I can manage and work around the bad apple, and maintain a healthy professional relationship.

I did read somewhere else though that stuck with me. In selecting shops, that shopper simply only picks up shops that doesn't any additional undue stress. That's another approach that fits that shopper. Sorry for rambling. That's just my two cents.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2024 04:55PM by Okie.

@Okie wrote:

@olympia tennenbaum wrote:

I happen to like some of their shops so I guess I’m putting myself in a position to put up or get out. This time I decided to put up with it. The MSC and scheduler do come up regularly on the boards. I decided not to put this in the company side because I didn’t really want to put anyone “on blast” as the kids say.

I sort of have the same relationship with some MSCs. This may not apply to you, but I did try to re-examine how I was going to do MS going forward. For me, a large part was overcommitment. After making a conscious effort to be very selective and purposeful with which shops to commit to, this has helped me a lot.

Personally, I haven't run into issues with vague and unclear requirements and guidelines. But, I do put up with some other stuff with some MSCs, because in terms of clients, thinking about one MSC in particular, I can already think of more than seven clients, just counting off the top of my head, that would address a large amount of my needs/wants, and I personally enjoy doing the shops. The MSC has a strong presence in my area, and I made an effort to establish good rapport with everyone I interact with. Even if there is one bad apple, for me personally, I can manage and work around the bad apple, and maintain a healthy professional relationship.

I did read somewhere else though that stuck with me. In selecting shops, that shopper simply only picks up shops that doesn't any additional undue stress. That's another approach that fits that shopper. Sorry for rambling. That's just my two cents.

I'm glad that MSing isn't my entire income, in that it can be a landscape filled with landmines. I am sort of a 50/50 shopper. I'm half in it for money and half in for my entertainment. I'm willing to put up with more for the entertainment side although if I end up with too much of a financial outlay with uncertainty, I'll have to reconsider.

I tend to not take on too much that stresses me out and, for that, I am grateful!

I'm also grateful for this group to have some of the water cooler kind of talk to let off a little steam and also enjoy some camaraderie.

@olympia tennenbaum wrote:

I'm also grateful for this group to have some of the water cooler kind of talk to let off a little steam and also enjoy some camaraderie.

Same here! I spend too much time on the forums now, and a lot more time on the forums versus shopping. Lately, I've been enjoying reading the old stuff, discourse, and following certain inactive users. All of the topics tend to be cyclical, and I found myself reading stuff from certain inactive users with the same issues and/or mindset. I need to work on moderation

This thread became long and I lost interest. Did the name of the client or msc get named at all? Maybe someone who has done the shop can help provide clarity. Just name the client and see if someone can help. If you already named it, I'm apologize in advance, I lost interest in this one.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2024 06:50PM by hbbigdaddy.

@hbbigdaddy wrote:

This thread became long and I lost interest. Did the name of the client or msc get named at all? Maybe someone who has done the shop can help provide clarity. Just name the client and see if someone can help. If you already named it, I'm apologize in advance, I lost interest in this one.

And yet, here you are. I kid.

Shop's done now. I'll update about the outcome.

@olympia tennenbaum wrote:

@hbbigdaddy wrote:

This thread became long and I lost interest.

And yet, here you are. I kid.

Shop's done now. I'll update about the outcome.

LoL. I think I know which MS company. Can't wait to see the outcome.

I'm not sure why the client or the msc was kept such a secret. I saw someone guess the 3 letter MSC early on and was told NO, but the OP wouldn't bother to mention the msc or client. Just seemed lame to me.

@hbbigdaddy wrote:

I'm not sure why the client or the msc was kept such a secret. I saw someone guess the 3 letter MSC early on and was told NO, but the OP wouldn't bother to mention the msc or client. Just seemed lame to me.

Thanks for your opinion. I didn't care to share.

maybe this won't be helpful. But you know me, I'm gonna say it anyway.

You seem to be talking about a restaurant shop, so I'm going to say what most of the restaurant shops that I do say about their required purchases. One of them gives specific items that must be ordered, and says very clearly that anything additional will get the shop rejected. So we order exactly what they require us to order and nothing else. A couple months ago it was a Hoagie, a Pizza, a mixed drink, and an alcohol free "mocktail."

A different restaurant shop says that we need to purchase an entrée for each person, plus either an alcoholic beverage, an appetizer, or a dessert. And at least one of the entrees must have a specific protein, but how it's cut and/or prepared is up to us. This restaurant says they don't care how many guests (actually, I think there might be a maximum guest limit), and you can order as much as you want, as long as the basic required purchases are included.

ALL of the restaurant shops we do have specific and relatively easy to understand instructions about what must be purchased, and whether or not we can order more or different things. I'm not generally a restaurant shopper, except for some QSR shops while I'm out and about. Sit down restaurants aren't usually my thing because I don't like being in enclosed spaces with people or crowds. And I don't often work for the C-word MSC that does fine dining restaurants, mostly because I don't like writing long narratives.

I think I know the MSC and the client. I only mentioned ACL as I thought I had read a comment regarding a scheduler writing in one big paragraph.

In any event, I hope you have a positive outcome. I am not willing to take on any shop where there are uncertainties, let alone be dissed by an MSC. I also realize every one has their own levels of tolerance coupled with their own needs and wants.

I also agree with Daddy. Maybe asking here about a particular shop without naming a MSC before sharing your frustrations would have helped. Easy for me to say as I think of my own experience on this forum where I did the same and received cryptic, unhelpful answers if you can call them that as well as nasty comments and bad, incorrect advice. At this juncture, I do 95 percent fine dining but do try to help when I am able to.

@Madetoshop wrote:

I think I know the MSC and the client. I only mentioned ACL as I thought I had read a comment regarding a scheduler writing in one big paragraph.

In any event, I hope you have a positive outcome. I am not willing to take on any shop where there are uncertainties, let alone be dissed by an MSC. I also realize every one has their own levels of tolerance coupled with their own needs and wants.

I also agree with Daddy. Maybe asking here about a particular shop without naming a MSC before sharing your frustrations would have helped. Easy for me to say as I think of my own experience on this forum where I did the same and received cryptic, unhelpful answers if you can call them that as well as nasty comments and bad, incorrect advice. At this juncture, I do 95 percent fine dining but do try to help when I am able to.

The intention of my post wasn't asking for help but venting about frustrations with MSing. The two points I made about receiving very imprecise and conflicting instructions and also getting a giant paragraph from a scheduler were more my frustrations about the different standards that we are held to. The shopper must get all details correct yet the MS employees can send unclear and sometimes conflicting information.

The MSC for this dining shop sometimes interacts on these boards. I don't have any desire to call out the MSC publicly or to reveal my identity on the boards.

I think the outcome will be alright. It will not break the bank if they do not feel like I followed the instructions. If I were doing this strictly for money or had a very large outlay of cash, I would have declined this shop.

@Morledzep wrote:

maybe this won't be helpful. But you know me, I'm gonna say it anyway.

You seem to be talking about a restaurant shop, so I'm going to say what most of the restaurant shops that I do say about their required purchases. One of them gives specific items that must be ordered, and says very clearly that anything additional will get the shop rejected. So we order exactly what they require us to order and nothing else. A couple months ago it was a Hoagie, a Pizza, a mixed drink, and an alcohol free "mocktail."

A different restaurant shop says that we need to purchase an entrée for each person, plus either an alcoholic beverage, an appetizer, or a dessert. And at least one of the entrees must have a specific protein, but how it's cut and/or prepared is up to us. This restaurant says they don't care how many guests (actually, I think there might be a maximum guest limit), and you can order as much as you want, as long as the basic required purchases are included.

ALL of the restaurant shops we do have specific and relatively easy to understand instructions about what must be purchased, and whether or not we can order more or different things. I'm not generally a restaurant shopper, except for some QSR shops while I'm out and about. Sit down restaurants aren't usually my thing because I don't like being in enclosed spaces with people or crowds. And I don't often work for the C-word MSC that does fine dining restaurants, mostly because I don't like writing long narratives.

Well, I always like reading your no-nonsense approach to things.

I think the guidelines for this shop were borrowed from another shop so that led to one incorrect set of instructions. This restaurant had a different sort of concept so I think one variation on the instructions was based on this concept. The third variation I think was due to a misuse or probably more like a misplacement of the word each along with some imprecise punctuation marks.

I'm getting tired and stretching for an example but kind of like the differences between "I can't love you anymore" and "I can't love you any more" almost identical wording but very different takeaways.