Personally, when I joined about six months ago, I was amazed at how patient and helpful the long time members are. I lurked for a while first, and I remembered thinking that they must get so sick of seeing the same questions over and over and yet they write a pleasant welcome and direct newcomers to the "Official List". In my observations, the newcomers who have been "bashed", etc. deserved it. I've asked some dumb questions, but I have never felt put down, and members were quick to provide useful help. I could never have made it so far so fast.

If Kate is saying she sees a lot of ownership here, I agree with her. I feel a sense of ownership myself, so I'm sure many others feel the same way. The forum will enjoy better growth if we welcome newcomers as equals and do not present ourselves as being in charge because we have been here longer. We were just luckier than the newcomers because we found the forum sooner.

There are undertones originating in past disagreements in this thread, and that's one of the issues I wish we could be more concerned about. It would be a good thing if we could address each issue objectively in the same way we work objectively.
For example, each issue (job) should stand alone and should not be affected by the last time we had an interaction.

As to the number of posts from any forum member, I see no problem with any member, especially the new ones, enjoying the forum to the fullest extent. Any poster not appreciated can be toggled. I find it personally distressing to think we might put limits on how often a person can post or when they can post because they are "new", whatever "new" means. It seems to me the "new" posters are the most interesting because their content is fresh and they are usually keenly interested in the business and wanting to share. Since reading the forum is optional, I fail to understand the purpose of telling someone they post too much or we don't want to hear from them because they're "new".

If Kate is saying we are often harsh and not understanding with new members, I agree. Although it is not always the case, it happens often that this forum presents a cold shoulder and a critical attitude to new members. I cannot forget instances of not feeling treated well when I was a new member, so I understand that many will go away. I personally saw a new member who was unpopular hounded off this forum. I refused to leave at the same time because I knew I could help others, and I have. That kind of loss is ours and not theirs, unless, of course, we want to be fewer and fewer instead of more and more.

I'd like to thank Jacob for giving us permission to assume ownership. "I want this community to be self directed by it's members." There have been accusatory posts damning such behavior. Any endeavor I undertake, I've always assumed ownership. Another part of my life, I'm an employee, and have been for many moons, in different fields and positions. I've never had an employer who did not appreciate me taking ownership.

As for the forum, I pop in and out whenever I can. I take whatever shops I want. I love MSing. It can be as big, as little, as often or as infrequent, as each of us choose. Regarding how much money I make shopping, how many shops I do, how long I have been a forum member or ms'er, how many posts I have, it is not a contest. Some shoppers want to do lifestyle shops; others are satisfied to earn $x. while others want $x xxx. Fine and dandy. That's the beauty of what we do. If the forum has members spanning the spectrum, we should have most bases covered for incoming.

Additionally, Jacob, unfortunately, had to discourage name calling. Really?! Let's take care of business, the right way.

Well, I would personally like to welcome ColoKate to the forum. WELCOME. :-)

I sincerely thought "OG" meant "Older Generation"

I really didn't think OG was name calling. I thought it was being used in the same sense as Senior Citizens, and I don't think that's name calling either. I took it to mean Old Guard, and I didn't find it disrespectful. I guess it's a matter of interpretation. Most things are.

"The Old Guard, often called by their French nickname les Grognards, were the elite veteran elements of the Emperor Napoleon's Imperial Guard. As such it was the most prestigious formation in Napoleon's Grande Armée. The Old Guard was formed of veteran soldiers who had served Napoleon since his earliest campaigns. It is believed that Napoleon hand-selected members of his Old Guard based on physical traits, most notably above-average height. Their imposing stature was likely impressive to foes and allies alike. Serving in the army for several years as well as a citation for bravery were also taken into consideration when selecting troops into the Old Guard." - definitions.net

I guess you have to be French, brave and tall to be part of The Old Guard.

I am all of the above and still not Old Guard.

“To the well-organized mind, death is but the next great adventure.”
~ J.K. Rowling, Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2014 04:34AM by Shop2LiveinFL.

Old Guard, in a political sense, are those who are averse to change and protective of keeping the status quo... even if the status quo is broken... simply because it is stacked in their favor.

So maybe Old Guard isn't the right word. "Old boys/girls' club" would maybe fit, though. I mean, why else suggest restrictions on new members that weren't present when THEY were new members?

I am not Old Guard. I just seem to have the misfortune to have stumbled across shopping years before stumbling across this site. The nerve of me, how dare I!

Fortunately, I found this forum not long after I began MSing a year ago. For the most part, I find members and this forum to be welcoming, supportive and a wealth of information. I specifically recall my first post asking for help regarding my first apartment shop. Within minutes of the post, I was pleasantly surprised to receive replies and PMs welcoming to me the forum, along with helpful suggestions and advice regarding the shop.

I understand what Kate is saying - somewhat. I have read some pretty snarky posts toward new members who were asking for help that, quite frankly, upset me and turned me off to this forum for a short while. One member, who posts a lot, comes to mind. He is downright arrogant and feels that it is okay to use foul language. When I finally realized what the toggle button was for, I no longer see his posts.

I sincerely appreciate all of you, seasoned members and otherwise, who takes the time to share your wisdom.

The attacks on newbies have been vicious at times; most notably the Tony Lorenzini fiasco, where a new poster asked for help finding the MSC's for whom his injured (we later found she was deceased) wife had been working and was promptly attacked for trying to get people to violate their ICA's. Several people refused to even consider that he might have been telling the truth and called him a liar, lazy, and other things. Even after someone googled his name and found the wife's fresh obituary, they continued to blame him for causing the attack because his original post didn't have all the details and facts they felt he owed us.

The thread made me ill. I and others tried to rein them in, I begged them (or a moderator) to delete the inflammatory, accusative posts. Nothing was deleted. And then Tony came back to the thread and read what everyone had said.

And it all started with the first poster who came to the thread who accused him of trying to get false sympathy so we would tell him who shops ... I can't remember what it was ... a cell phone company and something else ... and then people jumped in to back that person up.

I often wondered -- if someone else had gotten to that thread first, and replied instead, "I'm sorry to hear about your wife's accident" and offered suggestions (that were offered after the attack) to check her computer and emails to find the information -- if the tone of the thread wouldn't have been vastly different. But it was like once the accusation was made, the attack itself needed to be defended.

I've never been more ashamed of this forum than I was that day. I nearly left after that happened.

It is interesting, though, to see just how civil this place has been in recently weeks. I hadn't even noticed until it was pointed out to me that many long-time posters hadn't been around; I just noticed that nobody was picking fights any more. And the newbies have been helped, and the questions have been answered, maybe by people with less experience, but still by people with enough experience to get the job done.

I would like to see the the innocently ignorant posts made by newbies be handled by people who are still new enough themselves to remember what it was like to come in here, not knowing what to expect, and hoping for kind understanding not accusations of laziness and cheating.

And Bayberry? "In my observations, the newcomers who have been "bashed", etc. deserved it. " NO. No newcomer deserves to be bashed. They deserve to have things explained to them, to have protocol pointed out, to be reminded of their ICA agreement, to have it explained to them, "I'm sorry, but the purpose of this forum is to help people learn to shop. It is not to tell them where the shops are." They come here with excitement and enthusiasm, eager to get started (or upset with a problem to get help with) -- not to be shot down. Their enthusiasm and eagerness to get started need to be channeled into productivity, not quashed right out the gate. If they turn into a troll later, we can bash them then. But they should be given the benefit of the doubt at first.

I've said it before... Do unto others.... Did the grieving, confused, and lost Tony Lorenzini deserve to be bashed the way he was when he asked for help?

Blaming people for not reading first in the "new member" forum is wrong. If they're having a problem right now, and that's why they came here, it is unfair to expect them to figure out how to use the search feature to find their own answers, or to spend hours reading hoping to stumble over the answer. It's easier just to ask the question. That's not laziness; that's efficiency. They may not have time to search. If you don't want to answer it -- go to another thread. Nobody is required to respond to a post just because they read it.

So you can put me solidly on the side of having some kind of "rules" for responding to new members. Maybe in addition to screening their first few posts to be sure they're not a spammer, there could be some kind of moderation for the "first responders" to ensure that they are met with kindness before they get hit with a hammer by someone.

That was definitely a bad day for the forum. I do feel that there were so many things that conspired to go wrong. I do wish that once things became clearer more people had chosen to apologize or remove some of the accusatory remarks. Tony was going through a horrible time and many people piled on. I do see how people could have been confused by the initial post. I felt the worst of it was people defending their positions after it became more obvious that he going through a traumatic time.

This is one of those instances where I think some light monitoring/mentoring of new members would have helped. If the OP had been caught and a couple of polite questions been asked, it is very likely that either the post could have been clarified in the first post or after it would have been from a longer term member asking for suggestions as to what to do. Poor Tony reached out for an answer when he could not think straight due to grief and got battered here.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2014 02:28AM by Shelly.

I remember that thread and was horrified while reading the bashing posts by others. I say, if you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything at all. I offer advice/help when I feel what I have to say is helpful. I have been shopping a little over a year and have only just felt more confident in what I post here. I certainly am not here to bash newcomers - I am here to learn and help when I can. I remember all too well what it was like to be a newcomer to this forum. I also remember how nervous I was to ask for help the first time. I was so happy when I received the advice/help I did and everything worked out fine - just like I was told it would. So, people, be nice to others and they will be nice to you.

I was also very ashamed by the Tony posts particularly when we were all informed and yet the offenders refused to retract what they are saying. However, other than that I swear I have been living on another planet because I can't recall recently when a new poster has been bashed or criticized (unless of course their first post is BEWARE OF XYZ COMPANY - THEY'LL RIP YOU OFF". So since I haven't noticed the nitpicking I have to wonder if I'm one of the offenders....

Why would it be okay to bash them for airing a complaint? Why does anyone think the first response to a newbie should *ever* be to bash them, as opposed to gently correcting them? If they cop an attitude after being gently corrected, then all bets are off and they can expect rudeness to be met with rudeness. But there have been plenty of times when all they have done is ask the Question of Death, "Who shops (my favorite store)?" and it's dogpile on the newbie with sarcastic barbs about being lazy and expecting us to do their work for them. How about acknowledging their eagerness to get started and telling them that half the fun of mystery shopping is the hunt for jobs and that "Eureka!" moment when you sign up for a new company and find your corner grocery store or favorite fast food place on their board?

Give them a chance to learn the rules before running them out of the forum.

I'm not sure why or when or how it all began, but I sincerely believe the tone has dramatically changed on the forum to a more positive and constructive and welcoming one. Yes, there have been a few exceptions, but the "dogpiling" on the newbie or the unsuspecting scheduler or well-meaning editor seems to have stopped completely.

(heart)

Yes, recently the forum is much more civilized. Let's continue to improve it in every way we can.

I agree. It's like the negativity was blown away with a refreshing wind. I hope it doesn't blow back again. It needs to stay gone.

Some exceptions, but generally, I agree. Our tone should be friendly, and not just to new shoppers. To have to state that, is sad.

When I first found this forum, I did not posts for months, because of some of the replies I read. There has been a big improvement lately, and it is good to see. I also have found a wealth of knowledge on mystery shopping and had several questions answered by reading posts.

The forum can be intimidating for new members especially if they do not understand forum structure and usage of topic threads. When I joined I was impressed with the volume of knowledge and time contributions of others to make this a resourceful site for the newbie as well as avid mystery shoppers. On the same token I have also read posts that have led me to be cautious in my postings as sometimes responses seem harsh when directed to a new shopper. I limit my postings due to not being a quick typist and when posting I am always trying to make sure it won't offend anyone. I don't know how to toggle, create a permanent signature line or recognize trolls but I do enjoy being here and reading the posts of so many of you.


Shopping with class in Mass!